To think having children brings status?

[OutofEverything]

I should add this only happens if you are the "right" kind of mother. 17 year old with a baby does not gain status from having a baby, quite the reverse. But for most mothers having children brings an increase in status. Suddenly you are a "proper" adult.

You still get discriminated against as a mother, get judged, and pigeonholed. But that does not take away from the increase in status.

Thanks that is a really interesting comment.

Absolutely not. If anything you loose status. Your employability, earning power and freedom all disappear and you can often feel or become dependent on your partner.

It can do, in some ways. There are also other forms of sexism and loss of status that only mothers experience.

Not what I said in the slightest.
Read my post again - it's about how conventionally-minded people view others who have children. It didn't even mention the parents.

Although now you've raised the topic - I think loads of people have DC just because it's the done thing, then don't much enjoy parenthood. Nobody tells would-be parents - especially mothers - exactly how hard it is. Fathers are often totally surprised & resentful about how much their wife/partner is changed by the experience.

But it's not talked about openly, because it's a taboo subject: convention dictates that parents have to brush off the negatives with "I couldn't be without them!" because not wanting kids - or regretting having them - is seen as unnatural. ie - the convention is so strong it is seen as taboo to defy it. We've all met parents who make us wonder "whyTF did you have DC, you seem to resent them/are giving them a shit upbringing" ... they had them because NOT having them was pushing convention too far.

The whole concept of status is absurd and in most cases complete nonsense.

No, not at all. I’m childfree by choice, and I certainly don’t recognise any reduction in status.
What I do sometimes notice is a degree of envy from parents, particularly when I’m about to go on what is usually described as ‘yet another holiday’. This makes me uncomfortable because I don’t envy them their children (quite the opposite), so why would they envy me? Are they unhappy with their own life choices?

I would frame it slightly differently and say that women (not men) without children past a certain age are often perceived as a bit odd, a bit threatening maybe… all patriarchal bullshit and changing thank god but the attitude that true womanhood is attained through having children is definitely still mainstream.

Certainly not in the work place. Women can instantly go from “powerful leader” to “mumsy” on having children. Definitely not an increase in status.

TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu is it as deep as that or so this just have unprotected sex and have limited horizons so just have a baby.

I don’t know about status but I definitely felt more, sort of, connected into the wider family than before especially with my in laws. I think creating a bond of children made me seem like a more permanent member of the family if that makes sense?
I think generally mothers are treated poorly by society and disagree you get status in work or in society. People help new mothers sure but that’s because it’s so hard!

IntentionalError maybe they are just being polite, they probably don't give it a second thought. I have a husband who is always banging on about other people's holidays and any opportunity to go on one he will, he is Skiing now and I can't think of anything worse! I'm not overly bothered about holidays and get satisfaction from other things/hobbies. It is probably the holiday people that are envying you and nothing to do with havinf children. DH adores his children more than anything but he doesn't equate having them with not going on holiday - evidently!

No, not everyone can have a child. For couples with infertility issues it can be extremely difficult and sometimes impossible.

I think it does for men. A male friend in his 30s constantly gets comments along the lines of not being a proper responsible adult because he doesn't have kids. He has a house and a mortgage which I think makes him fairly responsible. I'm sure I read something about men more likely to be promoted if they have kids.

I have never been as invisible as I was with preschool children. I don't think I'm alone in feeling this. I didn't care as I loved that period of my life but nobody noticed me. I had a busy career and social life beforehand and therefore much higher status than the me lugging babies and toddlers about.

Not sure, I think it can signify you are a " grown up" reached a new stage in your life. As a mum people can still talk down to you! And health professionals will call you "mum" if you take your DC to a hospital appt etc. Family may stop buying you a xmas gift and buy for DC.
So being a mother can lead to a loss of identity and individuality.
I think society may look at you slightly differently so in that regard you have a change of status perhaps, but once you get into your forties this has less relevance.

Yes, I think people in some ways see it as an accomplishment towards the ‘norm’ we strive towards at a society - home ownership, financial stability, marriage, children. But like pps have said there is a hierarchy within motherhood too wherein single mums/young mums/mums who choose to have one child etc are seen as having less status. Ridiculous.

LivesOnPigeonStreet I agree, great name by the way. Preschool children was 8 years ago for me but I think I was pretty invisible. I am 44 now and all our friends pretty much have young children now as we had our first in our 20s which is pretty much unheard of in our social group. They all say to me now your coming out the other end at not too old and age employers' will not have the fear of the maternity leave provision. It definitely does not help your status in work and opportunities. I do have a good job but only managed to get it after a term time job that did not match my experience or attainment. Surely status is concerned with work status?

No

Well, yes, it elevates your status among those people who see getting married as “having bagsied a man” and seeking validation through that, especially ongoing, once they find that the drudgery of everyday life may not be as much fun as they had imagined/ their child free friends have. They will also see their status elevated through their husband’s job, their car etc.

For men, I think marriage and children does to some extent.
I think as a mother you go down the pecking order in fact

Hmmm I’m not sure I think being a mother comes with both pros and cons in terms of your status in various different environment/situations.

I think people judge others for all sorts of reasons.

Society generally would appear to value motherhood. So yes. It does.

I clicked on this thread prepared to say don’t be ridiculous, not in my eyes etc. But I think you are right.

The most striking example I can think of is that it something terrible happens to a woman, the media seem to assign more status/value to her if she is a mother. Women without kids don’t seem as important.

I don't agree with that they are quite famous cases sadly of women being murdered who are not Mothers and the coverage was vast as it should have been but being a Mum doesn't have a bearing on it. Indeed, over decades the reported deaths in murder cases or suicide of famous people for example have been single women.

Is there a point to this rubbish?