Grandfather smacked DS bottom

[ranblungs]

DS can have meltdowns/big tantrums, usually when he's very tired. More so when he's at his grandparents' house (ex's parents). They have communicated to me that they found his behaviour very difficult at one point, but it seems to have resolved now.

ExDP did live with them but moved our two weeks ago.

DS (aged 4) told me yesterday evening that grandad had smacked his bottom because he was being naughty and that it "really hurt" he got upset as he was telling me and cried. I get the impression this wasn't necessarily recent.

DS also can play up at bed time when he is there and he told me that grandad pushes him back onto the bed for being naughty at bed time.

I'm not sure what to do next?

They are huge sources of childcare, ExDP is supposed to have him two nights per week but often works away so they will have him. They also help out during the week as/when needed.

The relationship between us was once very strained when DS was tiny.

I am furious that he has hit my child. Am I overreacting as it was just a smack on the bottom?

DS can be very challenging there.

They don't have any but I asked my oldest if she would and she said she was indifferent, she wouldn't aim to of course but if it was useful or appropriate then it wouldn't worry her.

Do they ever actually get punished or do you just 'explain' why they are wrong? 🙄

@Forgooodnesssakenow Haha that won't last long!! Trust me. I was smug like you, thinking I'd solved it....nope! As soon as they get older and more hormones appear - Anger!

What benefit do you see in punishing when talking about it is solving the problem? It's about working out what's behind the behaviour and addressing that rather than demanding compliance and punishing.

Is the point of parenting to have blind obedience in childhood or help them learn for when they are older?

Anger from them or me? I'm sure new challenges will come up, as they have for other kids I've looked after inside and outside of family. As I say I'm 40, I've had a lot of experience with children from babies to teenagers. Mine are young yes.

Explain a situation you are thinking of here?

And it's not smugness, I mess up, I am constantly learning and adapting but the lady asked for examples, practical examples of what people do who don't hit and I've given examples.

With my kids we talked about why they had done something wrong, why it wasn't acceptable and why they shouldn't do it again, but they also absolutely got punished for doing something they shouldn't have, just like in the real world. 🙄

I'm afraid your approach is wishful thinking in the extreme. I appreciate you are at a disadvantage as I know my parenting methods work, because they have, three times, whereas yours are still theory at this point as I get the feeling your children are still little.

I hope it works out for you, and they turn out ok, I really do but as a parting thought I'd really recommend you have a think about your definition of what actually 'hurts' a child. A small amount of discipline at an early stage from someone who loves and wants the best for them, or growing up with the absence of that and how its absence may affect the rest of their life.

Thanks, but no, you can take your advice back to the 80s with you.

Honestly whatever makes you feel better for hitting small children.

Honestly whatever makes you feel better for hitting small children.

Wow. THIS is the best you can come up with in response to @ColonelDax? After their pages of intelligent, reasoned, well thought out responses? This childish nonsense? Okay

Why are you fixed on punishment? Boundaries and discipline are in place for safety in the first instance, then learning socialisation and ensuring all individuals in the shared space are equally respected and considered. Communicating with children in an age-appropriate manner meets these requirements.

I do think it's interesting that you've shifted from hitting as an "accidental" one off that happens when parents are under extreme stress and do not intend to use hitting as part of their toolbox to advocating for hitting as a parenting tool that does less damage than other emotional and communication strategies.

At any rate, you have your parenting practice and you are determined that your way is better. Whatever cycle you are part of, best of luck with your children in the future.

Because ultimately this is what it is. You can argue for slavery, discrimination, theft, etc etc in reasoned well thought out responses. Ultimately we are talking about assault on children. If hitting another adult is considered assault then why does this change when it is a child? If hitting a child who is not related to you would be considered assault, then why does it change when the child is related to you? Take it all back to these basic logic principles.

Ultimately we are talking about assault on children. If hitting another adult is considered assault then why does this change when it is a child?

This equivalence has come up several times on this thread. Do you think a parent lightly smacking their child on the hand, bum or back of the legs is really the same as an adult punching with full force another adult??

After their pages of intelligent, reasoned, well thought out responses?

THAT is truly hilarious.

The good Colonel thinks keeping a two year old away from sockets is bad parenting, but letting him get close and then hitting him for it is terrific, which might actually be one of the most jaw dropping things I've ever seen on here. The Colonel has claimed that posts about alternative methods don't exist even when they're on the same page as the denial, admitted that smacking is not intended to explain anything and argued by assertion. That is literally it.

It is really disturbing that even in 2023, there ars people who are more concerned about not having to admit they made mistakes than they are about preventing assault of children and encouraging people to seek out the much better alternatives. But that's the mindset engendered by "do as I say or else I'll hit you". It's stunting and mind narrowing.

The only good thing is that any reasonable human with more interest in child safety than adult egos can see from this exactly how risible the case for hitting children is.

No, but I also don't think groping a woman is the same as rape and that doesn't make groping OK or not on the same spectrum. Do you lot expect medals for not beating children senseless?

'Beating children senseless'

Again with the hyperbole! Also, why bring sexual assault in as an analogy, it is disingenuous and simply does not work.

The hyperbole is from you lot! You're the ones constantly minimising smacking by saying it's not beating, as you pretty much insinuated in the initial post.

We're making the point that there's no other form of assault in which you'd say only the most extreme forms are unacceptable. It's only this one.

The exaggerations and hyperbole are yours, because you're insisting it's not serious unless someone's pretty much taken out by it. Like the Colonel's other ridiculous argument that something isn't a problem unless it leaves you dead or catatonic.

And you lot accuse us of taking it to extremes?

I swear, arguing with child hitters and their cheerleaders is like being run over by a lorry going at five miles per hour.

It's like that time Boris Johnson looked directly at the news camera in that children's hospital and said there was no press present.

Yes. It is an equivalent situation. Parents who hit their children do not lightly touch their children - they do it with sufficient force to shock the child. If my colleague knocks their coffee over onto my keyboard and I turn around and smack their bum or whack their legs again you think that will be acceptable? Because that's the equivalent situation. Equally another child unrelated to you transgresses and you smack their bum - you think their parent will be fine and hunkydory with that?

If you want to take it back to first principles then do so with your own argument.

Confining a child that isn't yours to a room against their will is a serious crime, but if you do it on occasion with your own child it's pretty normal parenting.

False equivalence doesn't help anybody.

But we treat children and adults differently, so those comparisons are foolish.

Do you make your colleague in work finish all their vegetables at lunch, and if they don't then they can't have a chocolate biscuit later for their break? 🙄

This feels like that infamous interview that Jordan Peterson did with Cathy Newman, where she spent the entire time telling him what he thought and what he said, rather than listening to and addressing his points. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Still, the thread is up, anyone who wants to can read it at their leisure and see who said what and what people expressed opinions and positions actually are.

After nearly 24 hours, nobody has yet addressed my point about what 'hurt' is to a child.

I stated several times that I believe things like 'time outs', 'reflection spots' etc are just as 'hurtful' to children, often more so, because they are mental coercion and would be classed as psychological torture techniques if used on adults. Yet many people who are against smacking (sorry beating 😂) are very happy to use those kind of techniques, or at the very least, not condemn them.

Kind of undermines the entire 'I'd never hurt a child' narrative.

(For the avoidance of doubt, I don't have an issue with time outs, but I wouldn't use them myself, I think they often cause far more distress and emotional anguish than a sharp smack on a hand or bum ever will.)

Still, the thread is up, anyone who wants to can read it at their leisure and see who said what and what people expressed opinions and positions actually are.

They can indeed, which is good. But I think there should be a warning right before the assertion that keeping a one to two year old away from sockets is terrible parenting, but letting him get right up close then hitting him is brilliant. I think people should be able to prepare themselves for that one.

Honestly, everything since then has just been gravy.

On a side note...the hilarity of hitters complaining about the quality of reasoning!

I do think it's interesting that you've shifted from hitting as an "accidental" one off that happens when parents are under extreme stress and do not intend to use hitting

I think you have me confused with another poster, I have always held that smacking is a useful part of a parents toolkit in certain circumstances.

I'd go further and say that smacking when angry or 'at the end of your tether' is wrong as its never going to be a measured response. I've certainly never done that.

There are scientific studies backing this up, it DOES HURT CHILDREN. I've detailed in an earlier post, I can't be bothered repeating myself so go back and reread if you like.

How about a first person account? I was smacked, it hurt. It hurt me physically, it taught me shut up and let adults do what they liked, it gave me an issue with authority that is ongoing 40 years later.

Not just the being hit but the other negative responses to developmentally normal child behaviour that breed shame and fear. That effect self esteem. That leave nightmares. And I wasn't beaten in the sense that I was left bleeding and crying, I was hit, open handed, as a small child by a large man when I did anything that annoyed or embarrassed him. As were my siblings. Being hit hurt, being hit Infront of people and the resultant embarrassment hurt. Watching my siblings get hit hurt.

And I hid things, rather than risk being hit, and this man would tell you it was for our good, it wasn't, it was his narcissistic power trip and his 5 intelligent children, successful in spite of him, fter years of working on ourselves remain no contact and would sooner take a hit ourselves than hit a child. Because of the harm it causes.

Also the spanking was normal in the 80s rhetoric is nonsense, most of my friends weren't hit. Those with intelligent, profession parents largely who understood that behaviour was communication. They weren't hit. They too are successful without the years of sorting their trauma that we have had to endure.

So yeah from a child who was smacked, not beaten, I was harmed by being smacked in the 80s and 90s and I'd immediately cut out anyone who raised a hand to my child. You make a decision when you hit. You can make the decision not to. You're an adult, with adult levels of emotions, if you can expect a toddler to control themselves you can control yourself.