Grandfather smacked DS bottom

[ranblungs]

DS can have meltdowns/big tantrums, usually when he's very tired. More so when he's at his grandparents' house (ex's parents). They have communicated to me that they found his behaviour very difficult at one point, but it seems to have resolved now.

ExDP did live with them but moved our two weeks ago.

DS (aged 4) told me yesterday evening that grandad had smacked his bottom because he was being naughty and that it "really hurt" he got upset as he was telling me and cried. I get the impression this wasn't necessarily recent.

DS also can play up at bed time when he is there and he told me that grandad pushes him back onto the bed for being naughty at bed time.

I'm not sure what to do next?

They are huge sources of childcare, ExDP is supposed to have him two nights per week but often works away so they will have him. They also help out during the week as/when needed.

The relationship between us was once very strained when DS was tiny.

I am furious that he has hit my child. Am I overreacting as it was just a smack on the bottom?

DS can be very challenging there.

Why are your methods better than smacking? What is it they improve upon?

Can you just answer the question without insulting other posters?

Because people are fallible and at times during extreme stress may not follow textbook approved childrearing techniques? I don't think too many new parents start out with the view that smacking is to be part of their toolkit. I know more then a few parents who have admitted being at the 'end of the their tether' in the early years of parenting. Sleep deprived, exhausted, trying to hold down a full time job and barely keeping their head above the water and eventually snapping when a perfect storm of multiple external pressures and very challenging behaviour converge. Well done you if you managed to navigate those waters successfully, not everyone can.

I have seen on here frazzled upset parents confessing that they have slapped their kid for the first time. They are distraught by their actions and loss of control and know it was wrong but you still get the usual mob on here calling them violent abusers, telling them they need to leave the home, get the police and social services involved rather then realise they are just normal parents who have been pushed to the limits. Nobody is perfect, but your posts are coming across as particularly goady. No, before you accuse me of being an apologist for child abuse, I don't condone the smacking of children, but I'm not going to jump on otherwise loving caring parents who 'fail' to get everything right 100% of the time.

Because people are fallible and at times during extreme stress may not follow textbook approved childrearing techniques?

But that's not a reason to say hitting kids is OK. It's a reason to say the parents need to look at themselves, their situation and their coping strategies to stop it happening again. Nobody seems to do it at work, no matter how much the boss pisses them off.

It's used as an excuse for smacking when it should be seen as a sign that things are not right and the parent needs to make changes. What do we do when kids hit someone because they've lost their temper?

Can I just check, the people that were hit and claim to not hit their own children because they've found a better way, is that because you're finding it hard to admit you hit your children? Or that you genuinely have found a better way?

If it's a good method of controlling behaviour, doesn't hurt or frighten a child at all, is quick, painless with no lasting negative effects then what are we doing moving towards banning it? Should we bring it back?

Would you like to see frazzled parents freely able to hit small children at the school gates after a long day without the current stigma?

How about stressed out aunties walloping twelve year olds in Primark because they're moaning and you're out of patience?

Humans naturally move towards reward. If it's effective and you don't feel bad about it, why don't you do it?

I personally don't believe anyone that say's smacking a child is fine but I don't smack my own children. It's BS.

I never said it is 'ok', just that stressed struggling parents (people) can be fallible.

If you don't think it's OK, why are you arguing with me for saying it's not OK?

The pearl clutching on MN around smacking is laughable. Sensible physical chastisement that leaves no marks or long term injuries has been a totally normal part of a parents toolkit for literally thousands of years and it achieves the aim of controlling/regulating behaviour in a quick and practical way. If individual parents aren't comfortable doing it then fair enough, that's their choice.

Conflating it with 'beating', 'abusing' etc is ridiculous.

In the case of the OP, I'd suggest they have a word with the grandfather and make it clear that they don't approve of physical punishment so they don't want him to do it again. Obviously if he goes on to ignore them then they can escalate.

Assuming this guy is walking around alive now with access to education himself?

Just because abuse used to be widespread doesn't make it not abuse.

Sensible physical chastisement that leaves no marks or long term injuries has been a totally normal part of a parents toolkit for literally thousands of years and it achieves the aim of controlling/regulating behaviour in a quick and practical way.

People did lots of things for thousands of years that were shit. That's a really daft way of looking at it.

It does not control or regulate anything: it is the opposite of self-control and de-escalation and teaches no self-management skills whatsoever. It is also now known to be damaging, so anyone still insisting it's OK either has some vested interest in enabling the hitting of children or is actively resistant to criticism of it.

Because they are people who were hit by people who loved them and who they loved and it takes decades of introspection to accept those people loved you but did not treat you well. It's b
etter to say it was harmless than I was harmed by someone who loved me.

I was smacked and can say it definitely is harmful and if someone smacked either of mine they would be out the fucking door. And I'm 40 so not some young parent and my in laws are in their 60s and they absolutely know we don't do that and actually my mil was apparently more of a shouty threatening parent than a hitter and she knows she's also not allowed to shout. She says constantly how kind our children and how you can discuss things with them when they misbehave. That's because that's how they're treated, with kindness and respect.

thats in context of my 5 yr old being very high energy and needing a fair bit of management yet we all manage to not hit him.

Ahhh the old it's been around for years so it must be be an awesome form of punishment.

and it achieves the aim of controlling/regulating behaviour in a quick and practical way.

Has it achieved it for you? Just read that line back again and hopefully you realize how abusive that sounds!

I absolutely agree with everything you're saying. These people defending it are the people who a generation ago would have said 'youve been married a year, he lost his temper and slapped you once, come on now, he's a great provider and he's under a lot of stress, he apologised, he loves you....'

Which was normal for hundreds of years, it's still abuse though and most these days recognise that

So... If I become "frazzled", "stressed", "reach the end of my tether", it's okay if I momentarily can't control myself and smack my children?

Is it okay if I slap DP in the same situation if I'm stressed and he's getting on my nerves? Or are we just okay to do it to our kids as a one-off?

Absolutely ridiculous that any person coming on here to say their partner had slapped them for the first time is (rightly) told it's just the start and it's abusive, regardless of the situation, but slapping a child (because smacking is slapping, just not on the face) can be justified depending on the situation.

Also, I will add - maybe try and put yourself in the child's shoes.

Your DP occasionally inflict "sensible physical chastisement towards you that leaves no marks or long term injuries in order to control/regulate your behavior.

I've not seen that sensible physical chastisement in appropriate circumstances is proven to be harmful?

All studies I have seen do exactly what I refferred to in my original post and conflate a small smack on the bottom or hand in response to a measured stimulus, with aggressive beating/punching/whipping for reasons of loss of control in the parent rather than trying to achieve a behavioural outcome from the child. I can't really take them seriously as a result.

Besides a lot of 'approved' methods of discipline, such as time outs, reflection corners etc that many on this thread no doubt would be happy with and use themselves are obvious forms of psychological torture and isolation that are way more damaging than a tap on the back of the hand or bottom would ever be.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

Absolutely, if you care to have a look at the scientific community you will see that many studies show children who are smacked are more likely to develop mental health problems, aggressive behaviour, develop ongoing behavioural problems, struggle in adult life etc.

The effect of being shouted at and belittled is much the same though, so all abuse effects a child's growing brian.

If you've ever lived with domestic abuse you'll know it's the waiting for the next explosion and the walking on eggshells that's the real killer. The constant state of watchfulness. When children grow up being yelled at and hit they develop that same watchfulness, they live mainly in fight or flight and that's hard to recover from and effects the energy they can give to developing other parts of their brain.

So yep, hit your kid for misbehaving, they may not repeat the behaviour but the damage remains. Also it messes with the relationship you have with them, making them less likely to tell you if they do something wrong or if they are abused.

We don't do it because it's bad for kids, because it's abusive, it's lazy and it's indefensible.

I've got no mental health problems. Nor aggressive or struggle in adult life 😊

What a load of nonsense and a good way to smear those who disagree with you so you don't have to actually address their points!

Hitting kids sometimes creates immediate compliance for the moment (although I've never seen a crying child calm down from being hit).

But all that teaches is forced repression. No management, no de-escalation, no self-regulation...and long term, that's bad news.

Besides, what are you going to do when they're big enough to hit you back?

@ColonelDax

So just out of interest, if you've got children, which I'm thinking you might because you sound like you might have thought about this, do you indulge in a bit of sensible hitting of them now and again?

We did lots of things for thousands of years. Some cultures still do. We don't do them now because we know better. If you stretch this out you could be eating your neighbour for dinner, or we could be operating on babies without any anasthesia despite it being available for adults, becuse the belief was that babies did not feel pain. Fuck it, let's have a stoning in the town square, and while we are at it, why not relatively recent law that raping a woman is illegal even if she is your wife!

@ReneBumsWombats this illustrates nicely your question about why it is on the bottom. Because it's covert. It doesn't bruise as readily and isn't as visible as a slap to the face or a pinch to the forearm. There is method in the madness.

"what a load of nonsense" is a pretty good impression of a pearl clutcher to be fair @ColonelDax

But that's obvious drivel though isn't it. People have smacked children for thousands of years, far more openly and harshly than we do now.

If what you say is true, then the majority of adults would have been experiencing deep psychological issues, behavioural problems etc for the entire duration of human history. That clearly isn't the case.

If what you say is true, then the majority of adults would have been experiencing deep psychological issues, behavioural problems etc for the entire duration of human history. That clearly isn't the case.

Er...