Grandfather smacked DS bottom

[ranblungs]

DS can have meltdowns/big tantrums, usually when he's very tired. More so when he's at his grandparents' house (ex's parents). They have communicated to me that they found his behaviour very difficult at one point, but it seems to have resolved now.

ExDP did live with them but moved our two weeks ago.

DS (aged 4) told me yesterday evening that grandad had smacked his bottom because he was being naughty and that it "really hurt" he got upset as he was telling me and cried. I get the impression this wasn't necessarily recent.

DS also can play up at bed time when he is there and he told me that grandad pushes him back onto the bed for being naughty at bed time.

I'm not sure what to do next?

They are huge sources of childcare, ExDP is supposed to have him two nights per week but often works away so they will have him. They also help out during the week as/when needed.

The relationship between us was once very strained when DS was tiny.

I am furious that he has hit my child. Am I overreacting as it was just a smack on the bottom?

DS can be very challenging there.

Do intentions matter? Somewhat I guess but they don't excuse actions. Does the child care if it was intentional? I think if it's rare and you can talk to your child, apologise and work on reducing the triggers and your own reactions, then it's less likely to be traumatic than a parent who unapologetically and regularly physically hurts their child. But the child may still feel the pain, shock and fear and the memory may last and impact them later.

So whilst I get that you do your best but at times slip up, that doesn't make the act better or excusable.

Did you MEAN to abuse your child? No.

Did you abuse your child? Yes.

Should OP accept that the grandparents hit her child? No way in hell.

In the old days that was the way they dealt with things. He propbably didn't even think it was wrong.

Of course he didn't. Nobody hits a child thinking it's wrong. Look at the people on this thread tying themselves in knots because they don't want to admit their parents were wrong.

But it is wrong. And if he hasn't got the memo by 2023....

So an arguement with a stranger. An adult stranger who is double your height possibly three times your weight and they smack you in frustration just once. Is that ok?

The size difference alone between an adult and 4 year old child is just that. To suggest that it's ok because they lost control as they were "at the end of their tether" is every domestic abusers excuse.

Ah the old 'that's how they did it in those days' excuse (for inflicting pain on a child).

Besides, he's younger than my parents and I wasn't smacked as a child. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.

I'm sorry this happened OP. I know it's really hard, but I wouldn't leave your son there alone anymore, as tough as it is.

My mum still smacks me sometimes. I am 48. 😥It is always "an accident".

Honestly it doesn't make sense does it? I still can't believe people are endorsing this shit.

I can think of all sorts of things that used to be considered normal, ideal even, that we now know to have always been wrong, even if we did them. Why do so many people find the concept so impossible and offensive to apply to hitting children?

Is it because of a sense of ownership over children and an inability to see them as individuals rather than extensions of themselves? Is it because some people just can't accept that they or their parents fucked up? Is it because some people are still so stunted that they truly can't see how regressive, reductive and stultifying it is to say, "do it or I'll hit you"? Is it because they don't want to have to control themselves or accept responsibility for managing situations and their own emotions?

Why is it hitting children that people find so hard to renounce completely without excuse?

My parents smacked me. I turned out fine. I still love them the same. And it was never hard. Just a tap on the bum

Do you snack your own children?

Would you allow your parents to smack your children?

It's assault.

Christ this thread is making me feel ancient. I'm close in age to the OP's parent-in-laws and I have a primary school aged child, am actually younger than many of the other parents of children in my child's class, and my career and relationship are just taking off.

This thread talks about people my age as if we're from the dark ages. We actually grew up with computers, television, travel abroad, even had mobile phones in our late teens, you know.

And yes, we all knew hitting children is very, very wrong.

The fact that church schools allowed it still didn't make us think it was ok, it just validated our mistrust of Christians.

And no, no one I know of my generation thinks it ok to hit a child. Parents' generation (in their 70s), yes it was thought ok in some circles, but not among people with any sensitivity, awareness, responsibility or compassion.

My parents smacked me. I did not turn out fine and it colours my feelings about them.

Do you smack your kids?

Incidentally, why is it always on the bum? Couldn't they all just have hired out a BDSM dungeon if they really wanted to get into that?

So it would be ok if he did it to teach you a lesson, in other words?

Of course I did,why wouldn’t I, I want to be a better parent than my parents were to me…but I’m trying to highlight that there will be many,many people who were smacked by their parents, some of those will never have smacked their kids (kudos to them) but some of those will likewise have gone on to smack their kids and castigating everyone in the way some posters have been castigating them is not helpful. I haven’t read a single post on here that agrees with smacking children , only that some people themselves were smacked and don’t see it in the same light as yourself and some other posters do.

But most schools did not use corporal punishment in the 80s and 90s. It was very rare.

But in both my and DH's school at opposite ends of the country no one blinked an eye at teachers smacking dc round the head, throwing things at them etc.
I think there has been a huge shift in attitudes particularly at school.

It does cause depression and other mental health conditions, which do lead to deaths, yes.

It's very common for abuse victims not to believe they have been abused, especially when they love the abuser.

If we know better now, and we do, why can't we just renounce this shit parenting without excuse or caveat? Why is it important to downplay the effects on assaulted children by telling them that this person hasn't been affected like they were (or says they haven't).

It's shit parenting. It's wrong now and it was wrong then.

What more needs to be said?

I’m not sure I agree ….were you a yuppy, they were the only people with mobile phones in the 80s!!!! I went to more than 1 state school in the 70’s and 80’s and teachers hitting kids (plimsolls, rulers, my sister was slapped round the face by an angry teacher once) was part of discipline….it didn’t start to change til the late 80’s. Things change….as an example husbands were exempt from prosecution for marital rape til a test case around 89/90 so I think you might be misremembering how some people viewed the world.

I think it’s important because conflating smacking with abuse is actually taking away something from those who are/have been abused? That may not make sense to you or anyone else who sees smacking as abuse and I can imagine if you yourself had a traumatic experience from being punished when you were a child, this thread could be like a red rag to a bull. society doesn’t suddenly become perfect, so with instances like this where something that was once considered acceptable is now not acceptable, it doesn’t always help to have a black and white attitude to it. I can compare it to working in elderly care….when I started in the 90’s you’d get a lot of attitudes around colour ,sex etc that would be considered racist, homophobic and if I spent my time reporting every single person without acknowledging that they were the products of their generation I wouldn’t have got much done. times move on , we educate people and that’s how things change in society.

I think it’s important because conflating smacking with abuse is actually taking away something from those who are/have been abused?

That works on the assumption that hitting children isn't abuse and I and others do not accept that.

Sure, there is a spectrum. Some forms of hitting are worse than others. But if all you've got to defend it is "never did me any harm" or "didn't kill anyone", your standards are in the toilet. Not permanently damaging or killing your children isn't a badge of honour.

I experienced worse than smacking as I got older, largely because my parents, being smackers, never learned to regulate themselves or de-escalate situations. Yes, those experiences were worse, but the smacking as a child was still abusive and traumatic for me (and it was well within what was normal at that point).

if I spent my time reporting every single person without acknowledging that they were the products of their generation

Nobody is suggesting we prosecute people for historic smacking. What we're asking is that you accept it was wrong, without caveats and excuses. Once you've accepted it's damaging and bad parenting, what more do you need to say?

Why is hitting children so much harder for people to renounce unconditionally than all the other shit historic things we now know are wrong? Why do children not matter in this regard?

We're talking about 80s - 90s schools here if someone's 50 (perhaps started school in '78?).

Perhaps it was common in some schools, then. Not in any I or any friends or siblings went to (London and southeast).

It was only legal in C of E schools, perhaps military schools too, but Labour changed the law when they got in in the late 90s.

a 50 yr old would have started school 76 and left in 91 or thereabouts.

Ahh that may be why there’s a difference, apparently London was the first authority to ban corporal punishment in primary schools