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Original poster

Youngest child is such hard work I don't know how to do this anymore

148 replies

strugglingma · 21/02/2023 09:24

I have 2 dd 5 and 7 that couldn't be more different.
Oldest loves school has never been in trouble and is really easy at home, very well behaved, polite, chatty and fun to do things with.
However her younger sister is the complete opposite, hates school, never does as she's told is hard work, strong willed and I can't even have a conversation with her eg how was school will just get silence.
She smacks me when I tell her not to do something or if she can't have her own way (she's never been smacked) she deliberately winds up her sister which causes her sister to whinge, we can't take her to any shops, as she runs around and I'm just so drained and tired with it all.
I have tried the naughty step but she just says no.

It's unfair on my eldest daughter who misses out on so much because of her, we try and play board games but dd2 will ruin it or if she does craft dd2 will try and ruin it.
I am also a SAHM so this is my life and I love both girls but my youngest dominates the family because she's so difficult.
I feel deep down she is spoiling dd1 childhood because the dynamic would be so different if it wasn't for her and instead of the loving happy mum she deserved she's got a tired, drained mum who is at her wits end.
I love my youngest dearly but she's destroying my soul and the rest of the family.

OP posts:
2bazookas · 21/02/2023 15:53

She smacks me when I tell her not to do something or if she can't have her own way (she's never been smacked)

A sharp smack back would not ruin her life.

RoseslnTheHospital · 21/02/2023 15:55

2bazookas · 21/02/2023 15:53

She smacks me when I tell her not to do something or if she can't have her own way (she's never been smacked)

A sharp smack back would not ruin her life.

But it would be illegal in both Wales and Scotland and bad advice everywhere else. Smacking is crap parenting, it demonstrates a lack of resilience and mature thought. It is also illogical as a response to demonstrate that smacking isn't the right choice!

Kerri44 · 21/02/2023 16:39

strugglingma · 21/02/2023 12:21

I don't really know what ASD symptoms are.

She is perfectly capable of dressing herself but she refuses to point blank until we are nearly late and I do it.
She gets up from the table after every mouthful and runs round which no amount of discipline will stop, she will leave her dinner unless it's fed to her.
She gets very tired very quickly and chooses to go upstairs to bed it's like she's just stopped or battery went.
She gets very frustrated and angry when she can't manage something.
She is very loving and cuddly and tells me often she loves me.
She finds it hilarious if she is told off.
Shops and restaurants where lots are going on seem to be a trigger.
She's got a very short attention span and is bored very quickly.
She hates going out and would choose to stay in over going out.
She runs around and has lots of energy and laughs and giggles and is either really happy and silly or really angry and frustrated which can change in a heartbeat.
She looks at me with despise and contempt if she can't get what she wants.
She hates walking.
She completely ignores me when being spoken to.
She has no motivation, even brushing her teeth is so much effort.
She doesn't have any particular toys or interests she likes.
She often tells me she wants to be good but her brain tells her not to be.
From a young age she is very independent and although she gives eye contact now she didn't as a baby, I only noticed that as her sister would never break gaze while I was feeding her but I struggled to get her to look at me when she was little but maybe she was more interested in what was going on around the room.

Are these normal behaviours for 5 or anything worrying.

There does seem alot of things that would suggest ASD or similar....my Son is 5 and has alot of the same things going on except he's obsessed with minecraft currently, school have no concerns at all so very unhelpful, I've just filled out the referral form today for an assessment

fUNNYfACE36 · 21/02/2023 16:56

unless i am missing it in your posts, i see no firm boundaries and no consequences.

DialsMavis · 21/02/2023 17:07

My DD is similar and has always been the same. No issues with elder DS, we are very firm but extremely fair parents. She is at Secondary school now and we are trying to find out whether she has ASD/PDA or not. GP says definitely pursue a diagnosis but it has to come through school, where she masks perfectly. They have agreed to keep an eye on her. DD is getting better in some ways but more anxious and upset in others, which whilst horrible for her may mean it all comes to head finally.

stealthninjamum · 21/02/2023 17:14

Op you sound a lot like me. My youngest daughter was wilful, sometimes aggressive, yet cuddly, would not accept punishment (ie naughty step) or discipline, would dominate the family, believes she is equal to me and so won’t go to bed until I go to bed.

She has pda syndrome (a subset of autism), I would Google it.

Theroad · 21/02/2023 18:04

I have a somewhat similar situation except it's my oldest who is hard work but in a different way (no running wild or hitting but she is dominating/controlling, never been affectionate, likes things all her way, intense and was jealous of her sister from the day she was born) while I generally keep my cool and have tried hard to meet her needs (often to the detriment of my other child), I have admittedly often daydreamed about what life could be like with just her sister in the house, who is fun, very loving and easy going.

I feel the dynamic will alway exist as it's simply her personality but you just have to meet her where she is as much as you can, focus on her positive traits and explore ways of improving the situation. Be that discipline, one-to-one time, regular time away from her to clear your head and reset etc. it's tough when they are so different and you feel everyone is missing out in some way but you can only do your best!

Muddlebubble · 21/02/2023 18:32

Not sure if this helps or not but my second child dd was such hard work, honestly any outings were ruined with her behaviour, she would trash the house, refuse to go to sleep etc. I remember crying alot and thinking what the hell did i do having a 2nd child as dc was so chilled and behaved.
She gradually grew out if it and an absolute amazing young woman (age 17) honestly she is the highlight of my day most days and its all a distant memory when she was little.

hang in there it gets easier

Madeintowerhamlets · 21/02/2023 19:30

2bazookas · 21/02/2023 15:53

She smacks me when I tell her not to do something or if she can't have her own way (she's never been smacked)

A sharp smack back would not ruin her life.

Dear God!

ASongOfRiceAndPeas · 21/02/2023 19:31

Sorry OP I haven’t had time to read the full thread, but would recommend asking the school to support with Speech and language therapy/referral for SEN pathway. It takes a really long time to get diagnosed on the NHS but this is how my child used to behave at that age and they’re autistic.

by the sounds of it there is some defiance element to it too, have a look into PDA (kind of an offshoot of autism).

LincolnLoopy · 21/02/2023 19:54

check out biglittlefeelings on instagram they give great advice on how to deal with toddlers.

Youngest child is such hard work I don't know how to do this anymore
Youngest child is such hard work I don't know how to do this anymore
Letthekidsplay · 21/02/2023 20:19

She sounds unhappy :( and doesn’t know how to tell you.

HonestFeedback · 21/02/2023 21:08

Oh gosh, that sounds so hard. Those behaviours are not average, it sounds like she has some SEN or similar issue. My younger child has ASD+ADHD and yes, it is really hard.

You have to remember that it's not her destroying your family, it's probably her undiagnosed and untreated condition that she can't help any more than if she was blind or asthmatic. It's your responsibility to get her the help she needs.

tattygrl · 21/02/2023 21:34

I also suspect ADHD and/or autism from what you've posted so far. I am autistic and ADHD myself.

The thing about school being boring and going on too long rang the first bell for me, along with the other things you have said.

Nursery brushing it off means nothing in my experience. It is very very common for children, especially girls, to "keep up appearances" in some way, shape or form and then let it all out at home. Home is safe, school is not (in that way).

I really recommend pushing for an assessment.

nutbrownhare15 · 21/02/2023 21:45

I agree that you need to focus on parenting the child you have rather than comparing to DD1. Silence after school is very normal. School doesn't suit all children and that isn't their fault. Do you do regular 1-1 time with both kids, worth thinking about how to arrange this with you as well as with their other parent. I'd highly recommend the book How to Talk so Little Kids will Listen and also the book Calm Parents Happy Siblings. This is the website by the author of the second book: www.ahaparenting.com/ with articles like this www.ahaparenting.com/read/Parenting-Strong-Willed-Child www.ahaparenting.com/guide/school-age

UpperStreetGirl · 21/02/2023 21:54

HonestFeedback · 21/02/2023 21:08

Oh gosh, that sounds so hard. Those behaviours are not average, it sounds like she has some SEN or similar issue. My younger child has ASD+ADHD and yes, it is really hard.

You have to remember that it's not her destroying your family, it's probably her undiagnosed and untreated condition that she can't help any more than if she was blind or asthmatic. It's your responsibility to get her the help she needs.

My DD had similar challenging behaviours - loads of ‘SEN’ diagnosed until when she was 13 said she was seeing double - she didn’t know that this was abnormal until that age.

She had surgery on both of her eyes to rectify the issue and her behaviour transformed over night.

Heyboooo · 21/02/2023 22:22

Mariposista · 21/02/2023 10:00

She needs to learn she is not in charge and life is not always about her?
You put her on the step and she says no? Not her call to make. Put her back again, and again and again. Remove privileges.
If she won't behave in the shops, she goes on reins like a toddler. Very embarrassing, she'll soon get it.

The naughty step isn’t an effective method. You’re teaching the child that having negative feelings/behaviours is wrong and not tolerated. To really dig deep and get to the cause (which is what needs to happen if you want to see any kind of change) is to connect and understand the why. Shoving them off to the naughty step doesn’t target the issue, it just teaches the child fffom a v young age that negative (normal) feelings aren’t accepted and teaches her to suppress her emotions, actually causing poor mental health as she grows up.

The parent needs to do some work to get to the cause. As someone said above, behaviour is communication

OutofEverything · 21/02/2023 23:00

Your first child sounds a really easy child.
Your second child sounds like a normal 5 year old who needs consequences for poor behaviour alongside a bit of love bombing.

OutofEverything · 21/02/2023 23:01

Letthekidsplay · 21/02/2023 20:19

She sounds unhappy :( and doesn’t know how to tell you.

I agree with this.

Hurdling · 21/02/2023 23:08

Sounds very similar to my child who has autism. It’s worth looking into.

Steppen · 21/02/2023 23:16

She sounds neurodiverse OP. Schools are notoriously shit at seeing it unless she's chucking chairs or hurting other kids. Push the GP for a referral unless you can go private.

Nn9011 · 21/02/2023 23:21

strugglingma · 21/02/2023 12:21

I don't really know what ASD symptoms are.

She is perfectly capable of dressing herself but she refuses to point blank until we are nearly late and I do it.
She gets up from the table after every mouthful and runs round which no amount of discipline will stop, she will leave her dinner unless it's fed to her.
She gets very tired very quickly and chooses to go upstairs to bed it's like she's just stopped or battery went.
She gets very frustrated and angry when she can't manage something.
She is very loving and cuddly and tells me often she loves me.
She finds it hilarious if she is told off.
Shops and restaurants where lots are going on seem to be a trigger.
She's got a very short attention span and is bored very quickly.
She hates going out and would choose to stay in over going out.
She runs around and has lots of energy and laughs and giggles and is either really happy and silly or really angry and frustrated which can change in a heartbeat.
She looks at me with despise and contempt if she can't get what she wants.
She hates walking.
She completely ignores me when being spoken to.
She has no motivation, even brushing her teeth is so much effort.
She doesn't have any particular toys or interests she likes.
She often tells me she wants to be good but her brain tells her not to be.
From a young age she is very independent and although she gives eye contact now she didn't as a baby, I only noticed that as her sister would never break gaze while I was feeding her but I struggled to get her to look at me when she was little but maybe she was more interested in what was going on around the room.

Are these normal behaviours for 5 or anything worrying.

This to me sounds perhaps like ADHD. The getting up at inappropriate times, being bored easily, short attention span, difficulty doing tasks she doesn't enjoy and waiting to the last minute in particular would be things they look for in a diagnosis. It may be helpful to explore further.
I made it to 30 masking in school and trying to cope and she sounds similar to when I was younger. No teacher would have ever told you they suspected ADHD but all the symptoms were there I just learned to mask at a very young age.

AlliWantIsARoomSomewheeeere · 21/02/2023 23:32

Isn't this every second born child ever? 😆

But seriously she is 5, I do think you need a mindset reset...maybe she needs more activity and stimulation than her elder sister.
She could be ADHD, or have a high IQ and be bored at school or she could just be a strong minded 5yr old.
I have strong minded, stubborn madam of a 4yr old girl, who had to keep up with her energetic older brother from the day she arrived! all my friends with first born daughters have girls alot like you describe your eldest, easy and sweet, but dare I say....a bit wimpy 🫣 my little madam could rule the world one day, ain't no one telling her no! 😆 I adore and admire her tenacity. Is she hard work a times, hell yeah, but I'll take it for a kid who isn't gonna get pushed around.

Best way is to praise the good and ignore any bad that is just attention seeking (obviously anything dangerous or hitting needs to be stopped) but kids will do more of whatever gets them the most attention.

AlliWantIsARoomSomewheeeere · 21/02/2023 23:47

Also, I suspect my 5yr is ADHD though he does ok at school so far, but the book "raising my spirited child" really helped me deal with his emotional regulation issues and struggles with transition etc.
Lots of it comes down to giving them a choice of 2 or 3 options that work for you, so they feel they have some autonomy (eg.do you want to put your shoes on or have mummy do it, if you don't get your shoes on mummy will have to put you in the car because we have to be at school on time)
and acknowledging their emotions whilst holding clear consistent boundaries
"I understand you are sad/angry/frustrated that you can't do/have xyz, but I can't let you because it's mummies job to keep you safe/healthy etc"

azimuth299 · 22/02/2023 00:01

My strong willed hard work child is the one without ASD, but nevertheless ASD parenting strategies do help her.

One thing I would say is to not get into power struggles with her right now - even if you win you're really still losing because it will be damaging the relationship between you and possibly making her behaviour worse in the long run. She won't put her clothes on? You put them on for her. She wants you to feed her dinner or brush her teeth? That's okay for now. Just concentrate on making her feel loved and nurtured. Children often ask to be 'babied' in these ways when they're feeling insecure. Avoid situations that trigger bad behaviour and reduce your demands on her to the very basics.

I think it's a good idea to mention your concerns to the school and see if they might refer her for an assessment, as it does sound like she's quite unhappy at the moment.