to think about leaving DH due to infertility

[backoftheplane]

DH and I have been together nearly 11 years (for context, he's actually DP, we're not married but we've just been together for ages and that's how we refer to each other). We found out last year that we have no chance of conceiving naturally due to male factor infertility. I want to explore whether ICSI is an option. I found an excellent fertility doctor for DH a month ago and he still hasn't made an appointment. He said he wants to think about whether or not he even does. I'm devastated. I've posted previously about how depressed the whole situation is making me. Beyond saying he wants to "think about it" DH won't talk about it (he gets angry when I bring it up). He has said no to donor sperm (which I tend to feel the same way about). I just want him to go get a scan. I want to know that we did everything we could. He says he definitely wouldn't have an operation - even the small one needed if ICSI were to be an option. I'm not coping, and I'm considering leaving – but this also feels unfair to DH. When I brought it up again today he snapped that he wouldn't put pressure on me if the situation were reversed.

I've been looking at a lot of previous MN posts about this. It seems that when women who are infertile post about their male partners leaving because of infertility, the overwhelming advice is that the male partner is awful, should be prioritising the female partner with infertility issues and standing by them etc.

When it's the opposite way (my situation) – a woman who is with a male partner with male factor infertility, the overwhelming advice is to leave because otherwise the female partner will regret not having children.

I'm so torn. I know it's not necessarily fair to leave because of something outside of DH's control – but I do feel like it is within his control to explore our options, and he is not doing this. And, even if I do leave where does that leave me? I'm not automatically just going to have children. I'm 38. I will be grieving the end of a decade-long relationship, trying to set up my whole life again, and I'm sure that partners that you want to have children with don't just suddenly appear. So instead of being childless and in a relationship, I would be childless and single. I'm not interested in 'going it alone' either – I simply don't have the support network or financial security on my own.

I just think about the future and feel so sad and lonely. I also live on the other side of the world to all my family and good friends, and I just don't know where to turn.

Please note, I am NOT looking for suggestions like adoption, donor sperm, lifestyle changes etc... I have spent 6 months looking into this and I already know what my options are and what would / wouldn't work for us.

Life doesn't always work out the way we want. Acceptance is key. My first baby was stillborn at full term. I wish I had her but I don't. I had to let go and move on.

A baby cannot bring you happiness. You have to find that yourself.

If you really do want a baby you may have to make some changes. I would happily live in a small one bedroom apartment and/or get a different job not in London if it meant that or no baby/motherhood. It seems to me that you don't really want a baby enough to explore all options but are blaming him for doing the same.

I personally am against the idea of adoption or sperm donors as I was looking at them as options after we had two losses and the voices of adoptees and children conceived by sperm donations were very strongly against them. I also live in the US where such practices are unethical and exploitative. They cause trauma for the birth parent/donee parent AND resulting baby.

Yes, we live in a society where having access to science and money can make a lot of things happen. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's good to do.

Granted, we were able to have children naturally after that and didn't even need to go to the fertility appointment we'd been set up with although we were willing to explore all fertility options (just managed to get pregnant again and not suffer any more unexplained losses, so it was no longer needed) so I'm not sure if I would have revisited the idea of things I'm theoretically opposed to if we were not.im trying to be understanding and empathetic having not been in your shoes.

But the way I've been in your shoes is that I knew I wanted to keep trying for a child of our own and if my husband would not have wanted to then I would have at least insisted he go to counseling with me. It's the least you can do when you're in a relationship.

I do think it's his body, his choice and that he shouldn't have to submit to any medical procedures if he doesn't want to. But he should at least talk about it with me and open up to me or else what kind of relationship would we even have?

And if it was decided that he didn't want a baby under those circumstances and I did then I would hope we could part ways amicably because I believe he wants me to be happy and vice versa. Life is too short not to be happy. Once I knew o wanted to be a mother (which was via a surprise positive pregnancy test at age 31 despite being on BC and thinking I didn't want children or at least not any time soon) I knew I would do whatever it took to try to have them. Life is too short to not be happy and not to try for what we think would make us happier but at the same time we have to work on our own happiness ourselves so we're not putting that burden on any children we willingly bring into the world.

Once I realized I was ethically opposed to unnatural ways of creating them I would still try everything I could to ethically have them - such as co-parenting with a gay couple or a single man etc... solutions the children who were created that way or relinquished by their birth parents have suggested. Financial concerns like a big house in London would not stop me from my goal of motherhood. Many mothers of modest means love their children just as much as mothers who have more means do. You really do not have to have a big house in London to have a baby!

I recommend you go to counseling to deal with these trying circumstances as well as try to work on your own happiness and maybe realize that true happiness can't be found in material possessions. And tell your partner you really need him to do marriage counseling with you if there's any chance for you guys to keep remaining together.

Also, I notice you are silent when people ask why you call him your husband but have never gotten married to him? That makes no sense to me and I think there are more big picture issues going on than we can know about so it's hard to give advice.

I just think there is more to this story that might not make you seem as shallow or capricious as you're coming across, like, "oh I didn't really want kids until he did but once he did, now I really want them or else but only if HE does and how dare HE change his mind now like I did in the past... and I can't possibly go for what I want on my own because I need him for this big house in London." To me it sounds very materialistic and selfish/entitled but he doesn't sound like much of a prize either if he won't even look into things further with you or talk to you so I wonder if there has ever been any real love between you?

Oh my god will people please stop calling op materialistic/ entitled/ shallow/ implying she’s a gold digger etc 🙄🙄😩.
Obviously all she meant in bringing up her financial circumstances was to say that she didn’t feel in a position- financially or otherwise (in terms of social support network etc.)- to raise a child alone . That is a totally valid and understandable feeling/ position to take. It’s incredibly hard to raise a child alone, and some of the things that make it somewhat more manageable are having lots of money/ family around etc. if OP doesn’t have such resources it is totally understandable that she would be concerned about her capacity to go it alone. That does not make her materialistic / a gold digger 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

Just wanted to say that your post made me incredibly sad and I feel so much for you...... because my husband and I were also in your position - i.e. male fertility and as his sperm weren't swimmers we were told we also needed ICSI. But know that ISCI is nothing more than him jerking off in to a cup in the same way he would for IVF. The Scientists do all the rest. There is no operation - it's you who has to do all the hard work of drugs and tests. When you first find out about infertility it's like being hit with a train full on - it forces you to reevaluate your life in ways that you may have never thought about and puts so much pressure on you as a couple - I always felt the mental strains were much worse than the physical side of the treatment... so allow time for it all to sink in...... my husband was all for going for treatment and yes it didn't work first or second time but we now have healthy twin girls....... explore his reasons for not wanting to try - does he want kids? That's the bigger question..... I have lots of friends who don't want kids - often it's one person who doesn't want them and the other isn't too bothered - which is not your case....... but don't give up ...... ICSI is nothing for a guy - just a magazine and a cup - so don't let that put him off.....

Yanbu but yabu for waiting until you were 38 to get fertility testing. If you were planning on waiting until quarter to midnight to have children, it would have been wise to know how easy it would be for you. This is what I feel a lot of my friends are going to face. People always believe its easy to conceive but it's not in most cases and sometimes impossible and then the other options are reduced or gone entirely.

Personally I think you need to make it VERY clear that you’re needing him to do this asap because while he wouldn’t put pressure on you… pressure is already on you because you’re almost 40!

He really does need to step up and get the scan… and get the op if it will give you a chance! If he’s not willing to do these things then quite frankly he’s not that bothered about having kids.

I was in your position, my ex was infertile, having about 5% live sperm…. I stood by him, we did 4 attempts of ICSI, 6 weeks after the final attempt HE left me!! He also had refused to allow sperm donor, I found this quite selfish!…. No one but us needed to know it wasn’t his sperm!! I also think love is about more than DNA. Shame to just dismiss something that might be your only chance of motherhood

I regret sticking with his as after we split
and I met someone else I then had developed fibroids which made my fertility decrease, after 3 years of trying I finally fell pregnant, but only ever had the one.

I regret spending my most fertile years with him only to be dumped anyway.

There is over 7 billion people on earth. The UK is a crap place to live now, never mind bringing more children into it. Adopt. There are lots of decent children needing a home. Your wants are a form of ego driven selfishness.

I know you are adamant about not using donor sperm, but if your partner has azoospermia (poss Kleinfelters?) he is not going to produce a child.

My DH has Kleinfelters and surgery retrieved 4 (yep just 4) poor quality sperm.
We had counselling and decided to try donor sperm. It worked for us. We have been very open with child about their donor origins. Child is a teen and really it is only a discussion point on specific occasions- eg biology classes talking about genes or grandparents etc but it does not affect our daily lives.
Due to the rules where we live, donors cannot be anonymous. We- as a family- have made contact with the donor and it has all been pleasant but has not triggered a 'new dad' complex as child's dad is my husband in child's eyes. Kid is very well balanced ( and kid has always known).

Using donor gametes is very complex emotionally but so is not having a child when you desperately want one.
Just something to think about as azoospermia is not curable/treatable. It will remain an absence of sperm.
If you are vaguely considering all options, contact the Donor Conception Network dcnetwork.org/ which based in UK.

Im infertile and when I was told I was very depressed for about 2 years. Your husband has just had a devastating diagnosis and it would have rocked his world. You need to wait and you need to support him. He is grieving. The pressure he must feel is immense. If you can't wait and as someone who has had numerous failed IVF rounds I know inside the panic is so strong you can't wait. Physically and mentally you can't do it. But honestly if you leave your partner now you are leaving a grieving person in pain. That's not okay.

@SomewhereInTheMIdlands do you have kids?

Sorry @elliejjtiny I think this is awful defeatist advice. OP’s 38 not 48.
IF OP shuts herself away like a wallflower for 2-3 years (and I totally understand why she might after the breakdown of a long relationship) she’s unlikely to find a new partner in her remaining fertile years.
IF she downloads tinder/bumble/every app going, says yes to every offer of a date, and treats finding a partner as a second job (in terms of time and effort commitment to the project) she’s highly likely to find a partner to have a child with.

Main point of reference for above is myself. Met daughters father at 37. Daughter born at 39.
Is he the man I dreamt of? Hell no. But that guy didn’t want kids with me.
Did I make the right decision for me? Hell yes.

OP, I'm sorry for your predicament. As someone who has donated eggs in the past, I'm not sure that freezing your eggs is a very likely route to success because of your age. You'd probably have to do multiple cycles to maximize your chance. I agree, leaving to find someone to try to conceive with doesn't sound very likely to work either nor would be a very strong position to put yourself in. It seems like you're dealing with the unfortunate reality that biology is not on our side when it comes to waiting to having children.

On the plus side, it sounds like you've got your head screwed on. It sounds to me like your relationship is potentially very salvageable and that perhaps DP is currently incommunicado due to his own grief about his infertility. I know you said he is not willing to go to couples counseling, but perhaps he will be willing once he's had more of a chance to get his head around it. Then perhaps you can make a plan together. It sounds to me like your core need is to at least try and that his might be to accept the current reality. Both very reasonable positions that a good couples counselor would hopefully be able to help you reach a mutual understanding on. Good luck!

And for what it's worth, I think it's very responsible that you're not rushing off trying to get impregnated at all costs, when you'd be putting yourself and a future child in a not so great position.

I think you and your partner have commitment issues. When you decide to have a baby you need to commit to being there for your children for a couple of decades and to provide a stable home for them. If you plan children and are unmarried or not in a civil partnership, that is the time to commit absolutely to your partner, because it provides a more secure basis for creating your family. Now the way forward is proving difficult, your partner is not committed to proceeding, and you are not committed to supporting him. Parenthood is the hardest job in the world and your partnership may not survive the first hurdle! So now is the time to sit down, discuss your long term commitment to each other, make your union official, or split. If you both decide to officialise your partnership, it will provide a secure basis for deciding together how best to create your family, or indeed to follow the child free path.

She has time if that’s what she wants. I met my DDs’ dad for the first time in May. By September I was pregnant.

Is he the man I dreamt of? Hell no. But that guy didn’t want kids with me

Bloody hell 🤣🤣🤣. Tell it like it is..

Maybe he's still in shock and I suppose its a bit like grieving. It probably takes time to accept what has happened. Maybe it's just a case of giving him a little time, but if he still shows no interest you have to decide whether it is worth abandoning a formerly good relationship. What would you do then - consider the other options that people have mentioned to you?

Takes a couple of years trying then on top investigating? Relationship only 11 years so take into account confirmation of steadiness there

My partner and I had been trying for baby at 38-40. We met late. He wouldn’t get tested even. I suspect there may have been issues for him. It all went a bit wrong re committing anyway because I wanted to be married and he didn’t but when it ended I realised I was grieving not having a baby more than the relationship and did it alone. It is very hard and very rewarding. It might be worth looking at what you want more. I think resentment can be really destructive in a relationship. I think the others are right about having some external help before it is too late. I had my baby at 42 on a third attempt with IVF - that’s not an easy route either. I wish you lots of luck with whatever you decide is right for you.

First and foremost it looks like he really doesn’t want children, either way he is being a selfish prick. I think from what you have posted that it is questionable that you even love him but are scared of being on your own. If you stay under these circumstances you will end up resenting him even more and be miserable. Is it best to be childless with him or without him?

My wife has PSOS, and we found out that I have a low sperm count also. Probably due to our respective ages when we met. Me in early forties, my wife late thirties.
We used IVF to successfully have our daughter which involved ICSI however there was no operation involved on my part.
My wife had egg collection where they used ICSI to directly inject the sperm. Of the four they selected as most suitable two were placed back and two frozen. The first two didn't result in a pregnancy however of the two frozen ones that were implanted we had our daughter born.
We used Oxford Fertility, and their counseling service also was very beneficial.

If he has azoospermia you might not be able to even retrieve sperm via TESE for ICSE. He needs the further scan/test to see if that is even possible. If it weren't - would that change your decision, i.e. would it matter that it's impossible vs unwilling?

Dh had zero sperm count but got a few (very few...) via TESE (a very minor process) for ICSE and we had our dd. I did accept that we might never have children - but we had agreed on our options. TESE and ICSE are so incredibly minor compared to pregnancy and childbirth I would have had little patience if he had not been up for it.

It just seems to me that DP has never really wanted kids and still doesn’t. He suggested TTC but when problems arose he wasn’t that bothered.

Op used to be on the same page that work and travel came first. Now she’s changed her mind but he hasn’t.

If he’s not bothered about his fertility and she’s not interested in other avenues - sperm donation, adoption etc, then there’s nothing to be done but to accept the status quo. You can’t force people to undergo medical treatment or be angry with them for not wanting to.

This is really the problem of leaving it so late to try - there’s not much manoeuvring room or time to ruminate or regroup if things don’t work out.

@Acinonyx2 thank you for sharing and I'm so glad that you had your dd. I fully understand that we may not be able to retrieve any sperm (particularly after he further explained the likely cause of the azoospermia) – I just feel as if we have to try. If it is impossible that is a very different thing to being unwilling to try – especially as you say it is a relatively minor procedure compared to childbirth and pregnancy. I know he is grieving and he is under so much pressure (it's difficult because so am I – for the same but different reasons, which makes it complicated). I'm just leaving things be for 2 months and then we need to have a proper discussion about things and work out a way forward for both of us.

Thank you also for reading the posts in full – it's quite frustrating to keep having posters tell me that ICSI doesn't need an operation when, for us, it most definitely would (which I should have clarified in my OP but have explained in so many subsequent posts!)

Yes - I found myself exasperated on your behalf! I suppose he might never come round because if he's just not sufficiently motivated. Or - it might just take time for him to process what's happening and the medical process. Which is hard - because the clock is ticking. To cut a long story short - I was 42 when dd was conceived - the odds were pretty slim. I take it you have had your own fertility tests so may have some idea of where you are - how your own hormones are looking to help get a sense of the time pressure.

Met daughters father at 37. Daughter born at 39.
Is he the man I dreamt of? Hell no. But that guy didn’t want kids with me.
Did I make the right decision for me? Hell yes

Interesting that your desire for children was stronger than that for a 'dream' partner for life.

The 18 child rearing years actually pass very quickly and it's nice to have a happy fulfilling relationship with your partner during, and more importantly, after that time.

I guess it’s one of the side effects of posting on MN - sifting through responses to find the actually relevant ones! I have had my own fertility tests done and everything looks fine from my side. I’m hoping we can talk things through in two months and find a way to move forward together, whatever that is. I do love him very much (despite what half the pp seem to think?! 🙄) but we are definitely not in a good place at the moment.. tbh there has been a lot of stress in our lives from other outside factors over the past year or so, and this just feels like it could be the thing that breaks us if we don’t treat each other with kindness. I’m trying really hard to understand things from his perspective, but it doesn’t really feel like he is trying to understand how I feel.