To pull away from my close friendship because of her kids

[abouttimeforu]

My close friendship is with my sister. We are extremely close. My child can be very challenging , currently waiting on ASD assessment , attention seeking and has a hard time managing his anger although this has improved greatly .
My child struggles socially and doesn't have many friends.
He is also so kind and loving, very sensitive , thoughtful and funny He is 11.

My sister's two children are by and large, rude and moody. Their mother will often put this down to tiredness and hunger but reality is they are actually just rude and moody, mostly

They will engage with my child when there's no other option but if there are other kids around, they will practically ignore him.
So for example if we were grouping up for an activity, they will purposely say that they want to do x with 'Jen' and completely omit to mention my child's name or include him.
Despite him being the only one left out.
My sister does not intervene or correct them. I would be disgusted if my kids did this and very ashamed tbh.

Her attitude is that they don't have to socialise with people they don't want to socialise with .... until they have no one else and then ask to socialise with my
Child .He has been too available .. my fault.

To me he seems only good enough for them as a stand in but tbh I'm highly sensitive about this issue and biased.
I am very protective of himSo at times I am guilty of overthinking and over reacting when it comes to how I view his interactions with others , when In fact, he is absolutely fine with being on his own sometimes.

My child is always with me when we see my sister and her family. I generally make the effort more as her kids are younger and I have the time.

I think that for my sons self esteem and general happiness, I need to move away from the intensity of the contact , when with my child. He craves their attention and his self worth is so low that he will tolerate being second choice or not a choice at all, as the case may be.
This has only developed recently and I'm
Disgusted if I'm honest but then again , I'm highly sensitive when it comes to him.

My sister has zero insight with her own kids and has never once stepped in and said to her children, for example, to include my child or insist that he be part of a specific group that they were creating. They feel
Very Comfortable leaving him out and she feels very comfortable enabling that .
So, can you advise me here. I really need objectivity thanks.

I will add again that I can be very defensive as he was always labelled the 'troublemaker' which he was mostly, but not always, and always the one that was blamed when there was trouble among them... again, it was mostly him but not always. He has that label now though sadly as it has stuck.
Thanks .

Kind, loving, sensitive, funny children who have problems managing their anger do not tend to come across as kind, loving, sensitive and funny to other kids.

100%

I think there are two separate issues here.

1. Her kids are not very well behaved and not pleasant to be around. In that case I would spend less time around them as I would for any kids like this. She's not going to change her parenting style at this point and as you said won't take any criticism of her kids well.

1. As they are family and you can't cut off all contact then I would try to arrange activities where your son will naturally be included. Like crazy golf, bowling or games at your house etc. When out and about don't expect them to play with him as at that age kids really can't be forced to socialise. I'd have a word with your son about how sometimes people want to play with us and sometimes they want to play by themselves or with other people and that all options are ok. If it's causing him distress then don't go to those type meet ups or holidays.

1. Encourage new friendships for your son. Maybe try to find a group or club he can join where there is a common interest.

I agree with this. I care about my cousins but we arent close friends because we just dont mesh that way- we have very different personalities and very different perspectives on life. Neither is wrong, its just how we are. Its not because we dislike each other but they simply wouldnt be people I'd choose to have as close friends and I am sure the feeling is mutual. You cannot force close friendships, thats not how real friendship works. Its beyond silly to say you MUST be close friends with people just because you are related by blood and forcing that will only breed resentment and it could actually push them further apart long term.

Problem is ... my child is good enough only when others not around.

Tell her this!
they sound horrible and spoilt

Let's get it straight. A bullying, aggressive child with no social skills is going to make a negative impression on other DC whether they are neuro diverse or Neurotypical.

An autistic child or adult is often even less able to process or deal with loud, bullying or aggressive behaviour, so the fact that autistic people often share supported accommodation with others on the autistic spectrum is a concern in itself. An autistic young man I work with locks himself in his room and will pee out through his bedroom window rather than confront what he sees as his tormentor ( in reality, there has never been any physical violence shown by either, it is just his perception and that is frightening for him).

For anyone to say it is disablist to not to want to encourage or force interaction between the two is being utterly ignorant.

It is not disablist not to want to socialise with others who make you feel uncomfortable.

It is a gut reaction and an important protective mechanism.

If you want to overcome these intuitive defence mechanisms then it needs careful planning with training and supervision.

Blaming and incrimination of other people's parenting and DC behaviour gets you nowhere.

So for example, choose an event or activity where the DC are able to express themselves confidently and have fun in a structured way.

Riding for the disabled is excellent for this, as are structured and supervised petting times at a farm, trampolining etc.

Choosing activities where the DC are carefully monitored and supervised in a fun and positive way and not ever left to their own devices is key.

This takes insight, planning and careful management but can lead to shared, positive, happy experiences between both ND and NT children and memories to last a lifetime.

Good luck!

Really difficult one as it’s your sister but I would pull back and get your son into scouts for social interaction. He doesn’t need the pain of this on/off crap. I’m sorry it’s like her for this. I would also tell her exactly how you feel, it’d such a painful thing. I can’t see how your relationship is going to continue with any honesty to it unless you are vulnerable about how you feel and spell it out to her.

This sounds hard on you and your son.
I don't think anything that is said to the cousins will improve the situation though and is more likely to make the situation worse.

I don't think you can make the cousins play with DS especially at this age.
He's not their first choice playmate and tbh although you wish it were otherwise you need to find a way to be ok with it. I feel for you though.

Sounds like you don’t even like your sisters children

it also sounds like you are trying to control a social situation

sounds hard going all around

I would absolutely withdraw. Autistic children's mental health is so fragile at the best of times and they really don't need poorly parented unpleasant children in their lives, even if they are related.

Amen to this. I saw some of these unpleasant children who were enabled by defensive parents during my teaching career. This boy has a disability, and his cousins should be learning kindness and empathy toward others at home. Continue reinforcing positive social skills with your son and back away from the cousins and their defensive, enabling mother.

Your son will be given the message throughout his life that he needs coaching to have "social skills" to fit in with Neuro typical \ abled kids. There will be little no education for NT children on on how to be inclusive to others who are different.

People who are neurodiverse aren't automatically controlling with anger issues. It's a shame we've still got people here implying these are par for the course for children with an ASC and no support with them is needed. If you're an adult with controlling, violent behaviour, this isn't going to be OK because of your diagnosis, whatever it is.

I think the OP has done really well by supporting her son to manage these issues and she is now beginning to see the rewards. I think the cousins will likely also see the difference in him given more time and in a couple of years things will get easier because the more times they see him without the temper, the more this picture of him will outweigh the old picture of him that they have.

I would suggest talking to your sister about the progress you can see in him and ask her to explain to her children that as he's grown up, he's learning like all of us and isn't the same person he was when he was younger.

I would also lower your expectations about how / if the children interact, and look for short bursts of positive time together which you manage at first, rather than assuming they'll all happily spend the whole time together when you see your sister.

they sound horrible and spoilt

They may be horrible and spoilt and also loving and sensitive and funny... as per the OP's DC and everyone else, they'll have a mix of good and bad qualities. The bottom line is whether there's any good to come of saying something to the sister about this and I don't see how it can help matters. The relationship between the cousins is what it is and can't be forced or controlled as they get older. Better to not jeopardise the OP's closeness with her sister and to let the DCs be their own people and develop more appropriate bonds.

Why do you even want your son to hang out with what you describe as "rude and moody" children? It sounds like you intensely dislike them so its a bit odd you seem to want to insist they be friends with your son.

I agree with PP- of course you feel defensive of your son but it seems like you are excusing his aggressive behaviour and yet holding his cousins to a far higher standard- theyre kids. All kids struggle at times, ND or not and kids friendship groups are constantly shifting and changing. It doesnt mean the kids are inherently horrible or nasty. Maybe his cousins are picking up on your obvious dislike for them?

I don’t think it’s necessary for you to pull away from your sister. It’s possible to have a close relationship without always including your children. A meal out. A walk. Shopping trip. My children when little didn’t get on with my closest friend’s children. 20 years later we are still have a strong friendship, and have managed it with doing stuff together without involving our children. Children see things in black and white. Your child in the past has not been pleasant around your sisters children, and even though you say he is different now, it will take a while for them to accept that. You can’t make a child like someone just because they’re family.

I am on the fence here. I actually agree with your sister in the sense that children should pick their own friends but letting them be rude is unfair.

Though equally as a mum of a 11 year old autistic child I understand your concerns. Honestly I would pull back a bit and spend time with your sister more when the kids are at school.

I haven't really encouraged my DCs to be close friends with cousins etc as it would come with too much family drama attached as it's DH family. I am glad as they have their own friends.

Sorry, but I wouldn't force my kid to spend time with someone whose behaviour is challenging and who has difficulty controlling their anger. My own daughter is 13 and has cousins who are very close in age (two are a few months older and one is a year younger) and she doesn't like spending time with them, as they have nothing in common and she finds them boring and weird. Forcing her to spend time with them doesn't change the fact that she doesn't enjoy it.

I should have also said me and DH pulled ourselves and kids back from his family due to their toxic behaviour. Its no healthy for kids to be treated like second class citizens and this is what was happening to ours. They deserve to grow up believing they are valued for them

I’d start gradually going low contact and socialising with other people. Enrol your son in Autism activity groups in your area so he can make similar friends. Check your local SEND parent cater forums & charities such as MENCAP etc for clubs etc.

both of you need to socialise with more disability accepting people. It’s not healthy to entwine your family and social life together. Start making close friends out of your family circle.

If I was your sister I would be talking to my kids about handling this situation because it needs nuance and it sounds like she just finds out easier to say they don't have to do anything they don't want to. I'd be

• helping them understand what behaviour is in his control and what isn't.
• telling them they don't have to meekly accept themselves being on the receiving end of outbursts but they way to handle it is xyz and getting adult help if need be etc (balancing self protection with understanding)
• Informing them he is their cousin so while they don't have to be drawn to him or like him they do have to find some basic courtesy and civility when they are in his company which would mean things like including him as a matter of course.
• Explaining that being shown courtesy and understanding goes a long way to helping someone be the best version of themselves they can be, so if he finds social skills difficult they would make things worse by treating him disrespectfully and that isn't ok
• I'd be actively aware of their interactions and be ready to intervene if needed, like, helping with needed distance (like getting your son to give me a hand with something if things looked like they might be getting bumpy) or change of activity to help things go smoothly. I would also be aware of if they need help acting on the chat we'd had and adding that on if needed.
• Sometimes we'd talk about how things were afterwards if it was appropriate. Maybe if draw their attention to something that went well because of thoughtful care, or how or choices had influenced things etc.
• Considering the above and the health of the relationship getting them to tell me if they need to see him a bit less often so it is achievable and not unrealistic (as it might be of they spent too much time with him and he was very challenging)
• None of this is onerous or heavy, it would be chats at brekky or in the car on the way or whatever, just raising awareness and setting expectations in age appropriate language that's all. No big deal imo. My kids are 12 and 10 and if we are going into a social situation which requires this kind of understanding I do all the above and tell them to let me know if they're struggling so I can help, they would do this because they've been raised to understand that one person's wants don't trump another's (both ways) and equity means sometimes individuals needs extra help to be in the club than others. They understand that and happily do it.

So I think it is sad that your sister either doesn't have the skills or motivation to do this for your child.

They aren’t friends, they are cousins. They aren’t choosing to spend time together, it’s imposed on them by you and your sister. They are getting to an age where they make and maintain friendships independently rather than playing with whoever’s in front of them.

If their perception of your DS is someone angry, aggressive and controlling who has difficulty controlling his temper, they will naturally pull back.

Disengaging for a good while seems sensible to me. Then when you do all see each other communally, they will be more likely to see how he’s changed.

This is all very worthy but my children would consider me to be making very heavy weather of things if I went around like this. I think it would be more likely to turn them off than anything 🤔

But regardless of whether or not he has additional needs, if he is aggressive and bossy, then children aren't going to want to play with him. And why should they allow themselves to be treated badly?

It's not worthy or heavy it's just using adult understanding to have a helpful chat and do small practical things which speak for themselves. No biggy.

That is, the bullet points are just for the benefit of this thread, my kids don't get that version. 😁

It may not be that they like to but as you've stated, there is t another option. Maybe (likely) your dad copes better in situations where it's 1:1 and does not dispassionate much of the loud, problematic behaviour you describe so is more fun to be around?

No child is going to want to spend time with an aggressive, troublemaker cousin, especially one that is older than them. Of course they will be wary of him. Even if he is managing his behaviour better now, the cousins will have had years of poor behaviour from him, and no doubt they won’t be keen to engage with him. Your child needs to form new friendships without all that baggage.