To pull away from my close friendship because of her kids

[abouttimeforu]

My close friendship is with my sister. We are extremely close. My child can be very challenging , currently waiting on ASD assessment , attention seeking and has a hard time managing his anger although this has improved greatly .
My child struggles socially and doesn't have many friends.
He is also so kind and loving, very sensitive , thoughtful and funny He is 11.

My sister's two children are by and large, rude and moody. Their mother will often put this down to tiredness and hunger but reality is they are actually just rude and moody, mostly

They will engage with my child when there's no other option but if there are other kids around, they will practically ignore him.
So for example if we were grouping up for an activity, they will purposely say that they want to do x with 'Jen' and completely omit to mention my child's name or include him.
Despite him being the only one left out.
My sister does not intervene or correct them. I would be disgusted if my kids did this and very ashamed tbh.

Her attitude is that they don't have to socialise with people they don't want to socialise with .... until they have no one else and then ask to socialise with my
Child .He has been too available .. my fault.

To me he seems only good enough for them as a stand in but tbh I'm highly sensitive about this issue and biased.
I am very protective of himSo at times I am guilty of overthinking and over reacting when it comes to how I view his interactions with others , when In fact, he is absolutely fine with being on his own sometimes.

My child is always with me when we see my sister and her family. I generally make the effort more as her kids are younger and I have the time.

I think that for my sons self esteem and general happiness, I need to move away from the intensity of the contact , when with my child. He craves their attention and his self worth is so low that he will tolerate being second choice or not a choice at all, as the case may be.
This has only developed recently and I'm
Disgusted if I'm honest but then again , I'm highly sensitive when it comes to him.

My sister has zero insight with her own kids and has never once stepped in and said to her children, for example, to include my child or insist that he be part of a specific group that they were creating. They feel
Very Comfortable leaving him out and she feels very comfortable enabling that .
So, can you advise me here. I really need objectivity thanks.

I will add again that I can be very defensive as he was always labelled the 'troublemaker' which he was mostly, but not always, and always the one that was blamed when there was trouble among them... again, it was mostly him but not always. He has that label now though sadly as it has stuck.
Thanks .

I don't think you should force people to be friends at any age. Try to get kids to be civil but you cannot force connection.

My dd dosn't want to interact with her step cousin. I know the mum is hurt but dd finds her mean and annoying...in any case they don't connect as people. You cannot force it.

Your sister has missed a big opportunity to teach her children good manners, kindness and empathy. She is missing out on a close relationship with you. I think her attitude sucks. I'm sad for you.

I think secondary school is when cousins do drift if they don't have a real connection. It was certainly the case with my kids and their cousins. Unfortunately kids have long memories too. My nephew was a pain in the arse when they were younger - deliberately winding them up by hiding their stuff or 'play' fighting them when they didn't want to. He's grown out of it but they really don't want to spe d any time with him.

The way I handle this isn't to force the situation but to make time for my.nephew myself. So, the big question for me is, what's your sister like with your son?

Yes, and it's not reasonable to call them moody if they aren't willing to play with him. Playing is about feeling comfortable and relaxed, not worried and pressured to put up with unpredictable and unpleasant behaviour.

He would be better off in a more structured play setting, maybe activity-focused, alongside other children with supervision.

Or maybe there are older children who would like to help out by 'playing' with him for a short time.

This sounds like a hard situation for everyone involved but it sounds like your sisters kids are only leaving him out now after years of playing with him so maybe your sister has tried to get them to include him but has now decided they’re old enough to decide who to engage with. The kids are all of the age where they will be playing less anyway so maybe you should try and see your sister without the children. Explain to her why you’re doing it and explain that you still want to see her (assuming you do).

They're kids acting like kids that age often do. That's not worth damaging your relationship with your sister over.

Honestly, a lot of boys and girls that age behave far worse to those who are different.

Take a long break from them.

In the meantime perhaps you could find some social activities or a hobby where he can meet new people and gain confidence.

Your son will be given the message throughout his life that he needs coaching to have "social skills" to fit in with Neuro typical \ abled kids. There will be little no education for NT children on on how to be inclusive to others who are different.

I would seek out other ND families who get it , and find activities that he enjoys and can focus on.

Fewer friends who are truly valuable friends and who treat your son with respect he deserves will bring much more happiness .

Can you meet up with your sister for activities where it’s only the three kids and they get to do something fun together, bowling, laser tag, go ape. Less time hanging around family but some shared fun together.

If he's not bothered I'd leave things as they are. Not worth a family falling out over.

Sorry, but I think you're being a bit unfair here. You've admitted that your son can be challenging, but of course you see all his good qualities, you see the challenges that he's overcome and you want the best for him, and as his mother it's upsetting when he's hurt or upset or people aren't being as kind or inclusive as you think they should be.

But just as your son is a young child with his own challenges and issues, so are his cousins. You are very understanding towards him, but appear to have zero understanding for his cousins because they are not facilitating him and making him happy in the way you think they should be. But they aren't puppets who exist just to make your son happy. They are people with a mix of good qualities and less attractive qualities, facing their own challenges and who have good days and bad days. They also (like most adults) have other people who they prefer to spend time with, but they do spend time with your son during family occasions even if their behaviour isn't perfect. And they're at a transitional age (just like your son) when there's a lot of stress and uncertainty, new schools, new social groups, new pressures and they'll be starting to push for greater independence from their parents soon.

Your focus understandably is on your son, but your posts show very little appreciation of his cousins as actual people rather than as convenient playmates. If the relationship isn't working for your son, then you should absolutely take a step back and encourage other social options for you son, but that doesn't mean his cousins are necessarily behaving unacceptably.

Personally I would sit and talk with your sister, not in an argumentative way of course but in a way where you just want her to be aware of how you and your son are feeling. I would ask her if she could possibly have a few words with her children about including Billy as it is upsetting him every time he is left out. As an auntie to your son she should sympathise with him and not be defensive.

I disagree that ‘just because their cousins they shouldn’t have to play with your child’. I am constantly telling my nieces and nephews that them and my children are family and no matter what they stick together, they are all very young still but as a family we like to teach them these values from now.

I don’t think you can force children to play with others / spend time with them. It’s a shame they don’t get on when they are close in age. I’d be talking to my kids about including him more and I certainly wouldn’t ignore it if they were rude to him but your sister can’t force them to like him more. I agree you need to see less of them and just explain that your son gets upset as they don’t include him. That’s your only option really

ah I had cousins like this , thought they were my best friends but I didn’t exist if their friends were around
part of it was they would play differently with me than with their friends - so they were happy to roll around on the ground pretending to be cats or dogs or make up silly songs and plays if it was just us but if their friends were there they were too cool for that I guess they didn’t want me bringing my embarrassing vibes to their game

the other element which I realized much later was they were deeply insecure in their friend group so punching down so to speak made them feel more powerful.

None of the parents took any notice until one day I stopped wanting to hang out with them at all and suddenly I was the bad guy 😂
oh well , we’re all friends again now as adults

I don’t think kids (or anyone) should be forced to play or socialise with people if they don’t want to. Especially on holiday when it’s their holiday too. Sounds like they’ve grown apart, maybe because your DC was aggressive but maybe not. This is normal and fine, they don’t need to be close friends. They’re playing with him when by themselves and that’s quite a polite thing to do, but on larger settings they are naturally going off and playing with people they get on with more, that’s normal too.

I think this is really unrealistic. As a parent you can model or teach as much as you like but these children are at an age of making their own choices about who they choose to hang out with and also, how they manage their relationships. Sometimes it ain't pretty and that goes for the majority of children, most of whom are fundamentally decent kids. My own 15 year old son has been both 'victim' and perpetrator in these shifting dynamics. As have most of his contemporaries. It is so common as to be almost a stage in development. I don't know if these cousins are awful poorly parented children - I suspect they are just normal kids fed up with their cousin who has a history of (as they see it) being a pain in the ass and who are choosing when they can to hang out with others.

Speak to her. She's right in a sense they don't have to be friends and they are old enough to not be forced to play and talk but at the same time it sounds like maybe they are being unkind and I would not be ok with that.

If it can't be resolved then don't spend time with her and be honest about why.

Sister’s perspective
My nephew can be very challenging , currently waiting on ASD assessment , attention seeking and has a hard time managing his anger although this has improved greatly .
He struggles socially and doesn't have many friends.
He is also so kind and loving, very sensitive , thoughtful and funny He is 11.

My two children can be rude and moody. This is often down to tiredness and hunger.

They will engage with their cousin when there's no other option but if there are other kids around, they will practically ignore him.

So for example if we were grouping up for an activity, they will purposely say that they want to do x with 'Jen' because of his behaviour in the past and completely omit to mention their cousin’s name or include him.
Despite him being the only one left out.
My sister thinks I should intervene or correct them. I feel like she is disgusted with my kids and very ashamed.

My attitude is that they don't have to socialise with people they don't want to socialise with .... when they have no one else and then they ask to socialise with their cousin. He is always available .. my sister is always available.

My sister is very protective of him and at times she is guilty of overthinking and over reacting when it comes to how he interacts with others , when In fact, he is absolutely fine with being on his own sometimes.

I’ll end there. You both need to have a talk and try seeing it from the other’s perspective.

I don't think DCs should be forced to hang out with other DCs if they don't really want to, even if family, whatever the reason.

Are they girls?
IIRC boys and girls don't seem to want to be together for a few years, including these ages. Could it be partly that?

Kindly, I think you might be reading more into this than you need to.
So they don't want to hang out all the time. That's ok!

This sums up what I was thinking much better than I did!

I've been grappling with balancing children's needs. My son and a boy in his class are both neurodivergent and I'm friends with his mum. The boys can rub along ok but they aren't really proper friends but we've had several catch ups/play dates over the years anyway. The boy used to hit my son and wind him up (a product of being overwhelmed and not coping at school) and we were all very understanding and inclusive but ultimately I failed to protect my son and it has massively affected him for years. So now I do not force him the relationship at all.
They have little in common. I feel desperately sorry for this boy who struggles with social interactions but my son is not responsible for that (and my son has his own difficulties so it's not my place to burden him further). I wouldn't tolerate my son being purposely mean but I'm not actively encouraging him to include him all the time when he'd prefer to chat to a bestie about their shared interests. Forcing it won't help a natural friendship develop anyway it'll breed resentment.
I think you need to accept they aren't real friends, sometimes family are just tolerated. Work on finding children who share your child's special interests. Meet up without children more often if you are worried for your child's mental health. I see both sides but you are being unreasonable to put it all on your sister -neither of you are happy with the other children's behaviour and after my experience I don't think it actually matters where that behaviour comes from and why. If it's negatively impacting our children we don't want to pursue it!

Look you can’t force friendships and it’s fine if they all just hang out occasionally. You’re zooming in on this because you desperately want the kids to be close friends but they are not. And that’s ok. Your sister has a totally different experience to you, she likely had to deal with her own children’s upset and frustration with being controlled by your DS. I understand that your DS is no longer like this but that doesn’t undo previous damage and doesn’t mean they all have to be close friends now. If DS wants to have close friends, then start by exploring activities and clubs local to you. Also build upon existing relationships at school. Meet up after school for football? Other hobbies. It’s unfair to expect these kids to carry your child. They are all just children after all and they all have their own issues to deal with. Your nephews will be struggling with different things.

I am constantly telling my nieces and nephews that them and my children are family and no matter what they stick together, they are all very young still but as a family we like to teach them these values from now.

I wouldn't go along with those values. Being family doesn't make someone beyond reproach. Unconditional love is one thing, and mostly only works for the nuclear family, beyond that families sticking together sounds like the way that bad behaviour gets excused and abusers get covered for because blood is thicker than water. It's good to teach tolerance of course, but cousins shouldn't have to stick together if they don't get on or even like each other.

Your sister needs to step in. She and her kids are displaying unkindness which is highly unattractive now, by the time they're adults it'll be unacceptable behaviour.
I would be frank with her and then def reduce seeing her.

Try to join clubs your DC might like.
My sister was so proud of her DS punching my DS when they were 8 or 9 and being a terror to him. I stopped seeing her for years. My DS and DN are now mates and go out socialising together. He grew up. My sister hasnt....

I’m trying to think of practical soltions for your family times bearing in mind that you are close to you sister, you want to reduce your sons contact with her children but he is always with you.
Does he have any friends at all? If he does, could they be invited if there are events at you house. If they like gaming, they could be doing that while other family members do other activities.
I think, rather than criticising your sister’s children, which will come to nothing, I would say that you are not able to attend family events as your child is often alone at them and that’s very hard for him. It will cause upset but remain focused on your sons mental health as a priority.