To wonder why nobody is talking about the excess death rates

[Sotiredofallthisnonsense]

That's all really. It's not just the UK - so NHS and strikes etc won't account for similar or significantly worse death rates in other areas of the developed West.

There is very very little media attention on this. Am I being unreasonable to wonder why?

Excess death stats drive the changes everyone hates in the NHS.

@FannyChmelar and I know 3 people who died locally of Covid who swallowed the anti vax rhetoric and didn’t get vaxxed. All 3 were under 50. What’s your point?

No, coats. They're the things people wear to keep warm when windows are open.
Why would windows be open? Possibly because ventilation removes aerosols from the air and they know breathing them in is a bad thing? Or maybe they just like coats.

This. My dad managed to avoid Covid until early 2022. He was already unwell with repeat chest infections and had had a bypass a few years previously.

He was not put on end of life care and recovered from Covid although he died about a month later. But then he was 93 - and fully vaccinated. No doubt Campbell and the other wackadoodles would say the vaccine killed him.

I used to follow Campbell but in 2021 he made a video claiming Ivermectin was a cure for Covid and his audience increased dramatically. Since then he's gone full tinfoil hat. I watch Dr Susan Oliver on YouTube sometimes. At least she is a biologist.

Developing the vaccine was sped up - not rushed. Massive difference.

Usually once 1 stage is finished the people have to bid to get some more money, this process can take 1-2 years. They didn’t need to wait and go through the bureaucracy of bidding for grants. Then tests that would have happened consecutively happened concurrently, greatly reducing the time of development. No steps were missed out, or rushed, it was just what happens when money and people are thrown at a problem.

Vaccines taking so long usually is much slower as there is less money and less people working on them.

so they aren't wearing masks then, agreed?

I’m fascinated that in this discourse people are blaming the vaccine with no thought to what worldwide excess deaths would be if we hadn’t made any vaccines against sars-cov2.

There’s no narrative. I sincerely hope that the uptick is from depressed immunity from lockdowns and/or illnesses being picked up too late.
But if it’s not, I think we need to be able to have an open discussion.
Most of my friends and family took the Moderna or Pfizer Covid vaccines so I am very worried about them and hope the apparent excess death rates are not from vaccines injuries.

@FannyChmelar i would find a new echo chamber and you’ll be far less worried.

I like the use of 'excess'.

Excess deaths, huh? What would be the perfect number of deaths? I mean, you know, not excessive?

Well there is this study in the BMJ:

Study finds gradual increase in COVID infection risk after second vaccine dose

www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/study-finds-gradual-increase-in-covid-infection-risk-after-second-vaccine-dose/

Make of it what you will…

Vaccines taking so long usually is much slower as there is less money and less people working on them.

Yep. Every lab in the country was working on this, scientists who had retired or left were asked to come back and work on it. My family member who is a scientist and on a career break got the call. It was all hands on deck which is why it was made so quickly.

@FannyChmelar the UK government haven't withdrawn the vaccine. They've ended the autumn booster campaign for well, older people.

But, but, but...... and I dearly want to use capitals, but will resist..... once population and age are taken into account, there or no excess deaths in the latest round of stats for 2022/2023. End of thread.

Some info attached taken from wesites
Worldometer uk …..tracking covid deaths ( just the recent ones as they have stopped showing all the deaths tracking back in time ) and
Gov.uk ons stats …..for excess deaths

The last image states when accounting for population growth % of deaths is lower, but then an awful lot of vulnerable people including the elderly died during covid….

You haven't understood the paper at all.

The findings confirm that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine provided excellent protection in the initial weeks after vaccination, but suggest that protection wanes for some individuals with time.

It must be frustrating to work so hard to see some of the narratives that arose around the vaccine

So many people and so much was invested to get us out of hugely damaging measures

I’m pretty grateful for that

All very true.

But what level of funding can speed up time to check on 5-10 year long term impacts on human trials?

@RosaMoline Thank you for your input. I'll take your word over most folks'. I think it was @humpty74 who mentioned the air filtering etc to protect MP's. I also understand this to be true.
@Streamside & @jays I think you both mentioned relatives in hospitals - huge hugs, this IS the kind of thing that's happening. Thank goodness my sis & I got our Mum into a wonderful care home (Alzheimers) but when she arrived, she's been given other people's medication to take with her from hospital.. WTF? How hard can it be to find the right ones? The nursing home staff were horrified. If anyone can justify this, I'd like to hear it.

I've not been feeling well & saw a lovely GP last week, & was given antibiotics. After the very first dose, I felt SO much better. Finished the course, & the lurg came back. Saw a different GP who just could not be bothered, quizzed me as though hoping to catch me out on something? Wouldn't give me any more antibiotics, & when I asked for a BP test that the other GP had requested, told me to make an appt with a nurse or do it myself in the pharmacy.
The last times I've had it done, the HCA has had to do it three times to get a proper result. I don't think a pharmacy would appreciate that.
Now I'm feeling awful but demoralised. I'll have to be at death's door to go back.

There's nothing to make of it. It points out that immunity wanes with time. No shit Sherlock. That after a while you're more likely to get the illness than immediately after the vaccine.

"Compared with the initial 90 days after a second dose, the risk of infection across all age groups was 2.37-fold higher after 90-119 days; 2.66-fold higher after 120-149 days; 2.82-fold higher after 150-179 days; and 2.82-fold higher after 180 days or more" (from the journal linked)

Make of that what you will...

What I make of it, is what has been common knowledge for some time. That vaccine protection, unfortunately, often wanes sooner than we had hoped. That is why we have been recommended, worldwide to continue to get boosters.

You would know this too if you'd even read the link you'd posted.

I was going to say the same! What kind of alternative reality would you need to be living in to read that and think it validated your vaccine paranoia

@MarshaBradyo I totally agree. Thank you to the wonderful people who put their all into the vaccines. I am still wearing masks in public places, otherwise what was the bloody point in them trying to protect us..

Anything outside the norm. If they expect 4k deaths in a winter but see 12k they'll want to know why there are 8k excess deaths compared to a typical year so plans can be made for if it becomes the norm.

What's your point here? The article is saying the effects of the vaccine would wear off and a booster would be needed?