To think female groups are hard work

[Peckhaminn]

I've found I perform much better one on one than in girl groups. All my life I've got along with men and find their banter much more enlightening and humorous than female banter.

I don't seem to stick well I'm girl groups, often the one push out or the one that's too 'open'. I just find men much easier than women and I was wondering if this is a common issue?

Again, PLEASE HIGHLIGHT THE BIT WHERE I SAID "ALL WOMEN".

I have three main female friendships groups. One group wouldn't know a false nail if their life depended on it, one is a high-achieving group from school - high flyers with high grooming standards, the other group more urban, big party group - they do make up and hair in a more fun, experimental than slick way.

I love and value women in all three groups. They have shown that they love and value me too. I am literally just highlighting experiences where I'm less comfortable, and talking about the role feminine traits affect that.

But please, another poster say "blah blah, you hate women". It's a really nuanced and original take.

Oh yes, men can be bitchy. The men I know are also worse gossips than the women.
I find women more cliquey though so for example in a group of 3 women there is often a pair and an outcast even if that changes all the time.

Even as adults?? That’s bizarre.

@thecatsthecats

To be fair, you posted on a thread about hating women saying you were fed up of your friends talking about nails and you understood the op.

Seems you're back tracking a bit kow and tbh I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make

The ‘Outcast’ thing

Where did I say that I thought men were better? Or any of the other things you claim I said? Highlight the text, please, go ahead.
Going on about how men are more engaging than women, funnier than women, women are bitchy, women are high maintenance with a healthy side of literally saying you're not like all the other girls isn't pushing the men are better line?

Aye, right.

And you've decided to have a rather twatty go at me based on THINGS I DIDN'T EVEN SAY - because you've decided that I'm a certain type of woman, and that means I must think those things.
I'm not being a twat.
I hate to break it to you but quite a lot of women are really fed up with the same old sexist shit that women are bitchy, women are high maintenance, women are girly, especially when the "I'm not like the other girls" women take any criticism of their sexist attitudes as being proof that women are so bitchy.

Which somewhat undermines your point about not making assumptions about women because they're all different
It really doesn't.

Challenging the silly old I'm not like the other girls, 50% of the population are bitchy, high maintenance, not as funny as men, not as engaging as men rhetoric doesn't undermine a belief that womanhood isn't a personality.

Women are a brilliant diverse range of humans with a range of personalities and interests. The idea that some of us are 'not like the other girls' is hilarious.

@thecatsthecats You literally said you’re not like other girls. You’ve basically defined a woman according only to “girly” traits and decided that isn’t you. Now you’re talking about your friends who, like you, don’t know anything about false nails. Are they also “not like other girls”?

@thecatsthecats
I stand corrected on the men engaging thing as I thought you were OP name changing.

My thoughts on not like the other women still stand.
The not like the other women, other women do nails and girly things is just same old sexist shit.

I'm very much a female friends person mainly. We know couples that I like, I work with mainly men, I like men. But closeness, to tell my close friends what I think, talk about menopause, sex, bodily fluids, feeling ill, thrush under your boobs, etc, my female friends are best.

Really strange comment from someone who is in a relationship with a man. What does that say about you then?

Oblomov23
I think I'm quite similar to you. I've got a good range of mixed sex friendships, but some of my deeper friendships are with women, more so the older I get.

When I see threads like this it makes me view some younger friendships in a different light. I can see the pick me I'm different to all the other girls crap for what it was.

Thank you for acknowledging that.

Again, please read my follow up posts. I have a wide range of female friend groups that have a wide range of norms. Funnily enough, we even discuss our experiences of feminity, stereotypes etc.

My most typically female friend group actively discuss the role of feminine traits in our lives. I don't think it's a good idea at all to shut down conversation about experiences. It helps no one. You learn nothing from shutting someone down - especially another woman who has a different experience of womanhood to you.

I was actually responding to a different poster who said that they disagreed with the OP, saying that I understood THEM.

@thecatsthecats

That did not come across well at all

That’s not been my experience OP, but I guess our friendship preferences are shaped by our experiences.
My closest friends are a group of women from my school days and we’ve been friends for 25 years, but I attended an all-girls school.
When I went to college and found myself in mixed classes for the first time, I thought I had made friends with a couple of guys but all of them inevitability came out with the “I have feelings for you” bollocks further down the line. I’m not saying for a minute I’m gorgeous and irresistible - they were just being typical late teen lads, but it made me wary and I’ve not sought out male friendships since.

I noticed!

I have had conversations I’m not especially interested in, with men and women. I expect some of those with women included talking briefly about nails (probably not for 20 minutes but I don’t remember). I’m happy to participate in topics that don’t interest me sometimes, and I don’t expect complete compatibility with my own interests and opinions with women I call friends.

I have lots of Individual friends but no core group. I guess I probably would like a core group but the reality is I could/can never be arsed to maintain the effort. I prefer 1-1 interactions.

@thecatsthecats

Lol!

Who wants to feign interest? I have no deep interest in nails and beauty and the like and would loathe listening to a 20 minute conversation about that just because we are friends and that's what friends do. I am, however, fascinated by the fact that we are all so different, and am curious to hear how people do things differently to me. So I would ask my friend how long it takes to do their makeup, and if they had different looks for different occasions, or how much they spent on makeup etc, or how often they get their nails done, how long they last etc. But beyond that, no. I do not want to to listen to the ins and outs of which brand is better, the longevity of a certain foundation, intricate methods of application, which salon is best. I have no interest and I'm not going to fake all that just because someone's my friend. If they're my friend they're going to know me well enough that they won't bang on at me about stuff I'm not hugely interested in. And vice versa.

@CurlyhairedAssassin

That post seems a bit of a contradiction.

Just imagine if the sexes was reversed and op had said men are bitchy and impossible or not fun to be friends with.
There would have been an uproar.

Again, please read my follow up posts. I have a wide range of female friend groups that have a wide range of norms.
Funnily enough, we even discuss our experiences of feminity, stereotypes etc.

But are you really not like the other girls, like you claim?

Or are you, like most of us, just a group of women who have personalities, interests and enjoy each others company?

I think that's why so many women, me included, can't stand the "I'm not like the other girls" rhetoric. It's entirely based on sexist assumptions and stereotypes about half the population.

Womanhood isn't about nails, beauty, girly things. Women have all sorts of interests and we shoot ourselves in the foot when we start defining womanhood in that way, not least because it only adds to people like the OP with their silly claims about women being bitchy, high maintenance, and not as engaging as men.

On a bigger level, why do some women feel the need to draw a distinction between them and other women when other women covers half of humanity? It kinda feels like a pick me dance for the benefit of the patriarchy.

To me that sounds like exactly how normal friendships go about having conversations and you aren’t disagreeing - not every topic is going to align with your interests and tastes (and expecting that is unreasonable) and if topics that don’t interest you are what dominates then yeah you’re going to get bored, but generally the topics range around and I have no problem loosely participating in a conversation about nails, knowing that we will move on to something I have more interest in in due course. Not feigning an interest I don’t have, just not expecting every topic of conversation to be about what interests me

Maybe it's an introvert/extrovert thing then? I'm definitely an introvert. I much prefer one to one's and talking to someone more deeply. I don't even mind large occasions when you can mingle and talk to a wide variety of different unconnected people that I know on an individual basis. But sitting down for any length of time in a large group with people shouting across from each other or having multiple conversations at once. Not for me.