To think female groups are hard work

[Peckhaminn]

I've found I perform much better one on one than in girl groups. All my life I've got along with men and find their banter much more enlightening and humorous than female banter.

I don't seem to stick well I'm girl groups, often the one push out or the one that's too 'open'. I just find men much easier than women and I was wondering if this is a common issue?

I think it's a lot more alarming than girls that young are trying to punish each other for existing or not toeing some imaginary line of acceptable behaviour.

What about boys punishing each other for any perceived "girly" behaviour and calling each other gay? Do you not see the similarity there? Because this was the main example of the above at my school.

Are women socialised to be in competition with each other and that effect is seen even in children? I find that idea really concerning.

Yes, from birth. But not healthy competition. That’s the difference. Boys are encouraged to compete and win prizes, and to resolve conflicts with each other. Girls are taught to play nicely, be ladylike, be kind. They aren’t taught to resolve conflicts but to overlook slights and be the bigger person. All that does is create resentment, hierarchical issues and an inability to be honest (honest - not cruel, not bullying, just honest).

Don’t get me wrong - boys and men can be just as gossiping, clique-y and manipulative as girls and women, because these are not traits that only women have in their DNA. The key difference is that women are raised by society to behave in this way.

That’s why I personally find your anecdote so upsetting, because the teacher was reinforcing all of those messages by calling them all “bitches”. He could have described the behaviour, but he described the girls themselves. Using a slur. He didn’t challenge why they were doing what they were doing - like that great scene with Tina Fey in Mean Girls - he just used a word that follows girls and women through their lives whenever they behave in a way that they’ve been raised from birth to do.

Good example of the competition/niceness point. Simone Biles was on Dancing With The Stars and was called out by the presenter for not smiling when receiving her comments. She responded that smiling doesn’t win you gold medals. A backlash followed - she wasn’t being nice, and grateful, and happy. She was being nakedly ambitious. That wasn’t on. Women aren’t supposed to do that. They’re not supposed to be focussed on winning and not trying to win the crowd by being personable.

Imagine that happening to a male competitor in literally anything. Men are just allowed to get on with wanting to win stuff and if they forget to be personable it’s because they’re so focussed and ambitious. Good things in men.

Wrong women? Where do you meet these groups?

The girl friends I have, only a couple but are very chilled, open, enjoy banter and get on with girls and guys a like. Other than In offices or clubs, I don't find loads of girly catty ladies.

I don't generally fit in with any groups, never have. As a kid I'd hang out with the dinner ladies 😬😂. Always been a loner, but I think im a bit of an elderly soul 😂 could never relate to party scene, dating or modern fads. I grew up a tomboy, not particularly attractive so didn't really have any appeal haha Since I've hit my 30's I've started making a few friends where it feels easy.

Maybe it's where your meeting them? Or age group? Not all girls are like that, so im sure you just need to meet your tribe x

Oh Lord, you're one of those. "I cant get on with other women- get on far better with men tee hee"

You seriously think 50% of the population is just nasty and bitchy whilst all men are lovely, caring and easy to chat to?

You are deluded.

Have you worked with groups of boys?

I know a fair few secondary teachers. They generally are of the opinion that in boys' schools the fallings out tend to be short and sharp and then they either just steer clear of each other after a bit of a physical tussle or some of them even just get over the disagreement after a few weeks and end up actually being quite friendly towards each other. That's my experience too, of 12 years working in a boys' school. Most teachers in girls' schools would say that girls' friendship issues are the bane of their life. So much angst and gossip and whispering behind hands and laughing at someone, and falling out and making up and then falling out again and excluding etc etc. The grudges can last years.

I don't know what it is but I've seen this in offices too with some adult women. There is no other word for it but bitchiness, I don't care whether it's PC or not. Comments about how someone looks or something they're wearing that has no bearing on their ability to do their job or get on with someone in a professional way. I have never seen that type of behaviour amongst men at work. I don't know if it's learned behaviour and these women's female relatives or neighbours behaved the same way, or what. I'm of the opinion that it's probably learned behaviour because I've actually seen a couple of young gay men behave in the same bitchy way when they are amongst similar women.

Agreed.

Also, in my experience, the kind of woman who thinks she’s ‘one of the lads’ never realises that the lads are terrible misogynists, have no respect for her and are taking the piss out of her behind her back.

It’s so cringeworthy.

You must know some horrible men. When I hung out with mainly boys at uni we were all a bit nerdy. They were all nice fellas. I did in no way see myself as "one of the lads". They were the respectful type, most had sisters and were used to being with women. There were a couple of other girls in the predominantly male friendship group too, and they were the type of girls I get on with. Interesting, intelligent and funny young women, all a bit nerdy too and happy being so, so no-one was trying to outdo anyone or put other people down.

I USED to think like this. I was all about men (as friends) thinking they were more relaxed etc. They just wanted to see where they could get, looking back.
Since becoming a mum and getting to my 30s I'm starting to dislike men as a whole and really appreciate the inner beauty of women. I have many female friends now, including a group of women I have dirty banter with as well as amazing support and love.

Make friends will drop you as soon as they find the one. Tale as old as time. Pick the right female friends and enjoy decades of excellent company, one on one or as a group ❤️

Yes, I taught young kids abroad. Why?

Simplistic stereotyping

You could easily say female friends will easily drop you if they have a child/ family and you don't. It'll happen to some of course but its just stereotypical nonsense

If your friends drop you then you may have the wrong friends or perhaps you don't accept that their priorities change and you may not be as important to them as you believe you are.

Its not remotely the same.
While women friends may sometimes drift apart due to life changes, they're very unlikely to have a partner who objects to the friendship, as is so often the case with opposite sex friends. Invariably partner will be chosen over friend.

Totally agree with this. I had three wonderful and completely platonic (at least from my end) friendships with men over the years and all ended or drifted away as soon as they got married. It was never stated explicitly but it was very obvious their wives weren’t totally comfortable with them having female friends. This has never happened with any of my female friendships.

It sounds like you're generally happier in one on one relationships than as part of a larger friend group. That's not an unusual preference - although neither is preferring the group or equally enjoyong both; everyone's different.

I think it's rare to find a larger group (same sex or not) where all the individual bonds are equally strong and each member is as close to the centre as the others and everyone spontaneously breaks into talk about threesomes and sex positions and fanny fluids, Sex And The City-style. In fact, this is why purpose-specific consciousness-raising groups for women only - and later for men only - came about, because people were typically NOT talking about very personal things honestly within everyday social groups and settings. As far as the sex of your friend, or group of friends, that's up to you. It doesn't matter what someone outside of your circle would prefer for herself.

But while an individual woman can know what it's like to be part of a group of women friends or part of a group of mixed-sex friends, there's rarely a way to see what it's like to be part of an all male group. The women at Warwick University who thought they knew what the men in their mixed sex friendship group were like ended up quite suprised when they inadvertantly found out the truth, which included quite a lot of objectification and the normalisation of VAWG and rape cutlure.

There's also been some interesting media coverage of transmen who were not "out" at work talking about differences in the way their male colleagues interacted with them professionally and socially before and after transition. And another one about how banter among friends and colleagues often turns a bit misogynist when the group is perceived to be all male. (Of course, NAMALT and so on, but there does seem to be a persistent pattern.) It's easy to romanticise male groups and male socialisation from the outside.

I was relentless bullied as a teen. By boys. They used to write these vile misogynistic songs about me and post them on the internet. These boys were my friends (I thought). There were a few girls who laughed along precisely because the boys were more fun/ they weren’t like the other girls.

But despite that, I haven’t extrapolated that onto all men. I don’t expect most men to talk to me like that, I don’t expect most women to cheer along with that.

I find it incredible that OP and others can make a sweeping generalisation that they can’t get on with nearly 4 billion individuals purely because they are women. And I also find it bullshit because it’s not true. Either ALL women are a generalised stereotype which includes OP et al (so you are in fact like other women) or all women are individuals in which case there’s plenty of women that aren’t ‘girly’ or ‘vapid’ or any other number of things just like you aren’t. You’ve just not met many women.

All of my female friends and relatives are clever, funny and thoughtful. Some of the men I know are those things too but quite a lot of them are dull, egotistical and pompous. I much prefer the company of women.

I find I’ve always had older female friends and they’re all amazing and inspiring. Zero dramas, we all mutually rely on one another through life’s ups and downs. We all met through work many years ago.

When I’m friends with people in my age group, it’s usually a bit of a disaster. Starts off well but then it seems the more they find out about me, the more they hate me! They’re usually very competitive and if anything good ever happens to me, they’re there making me feel bad about it or guilty for being happy. If I buy something or go somewhere nice they are always there making me feel shit. Or they’ll only be friendly with me if it benefits them or they need something.

My male friends are so, so simple and positive. They’re easy, like my “older” female friends.

How old are you?

It depends on the group. I love the banter with my male friends, but love the deep conversations with my female ones. And there are crossovers! I’ve got a lovely set of friends now who are in their 40s. They’re not judgemental and I don’t make friends with anyone who is hard work.

Me. But I'm suspected ASD and ADHD. On the occasions I've spoken to other women diagnosed with ASD or ADHD I've found them great / easy to talk to. But that's not true of 99% of women I've worked with or spoken to over the years. Male communication on the whole appears to be clearer so I suspect that's why I've preferred it.

I much prefer one on one social interactions to group ones regardless of the genders though. Again, probably because it takes me so much effort to figure out what people mean and to respond accordingly. Socialising is an exhausting activity for me requiring 100% attention to run everything that's said to me and everything I want to say through all the appropriate filters so I don't misunderstand or offend people by missing social cues.