To think the language of ‘choice’ is not always helpful

[AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman]

Of course access to contraception and reproductive health services is a Very Good Thing and is linked in clear and obvious ways to improvements in health and economic outcomes for women globally.

But there is an interesting side effect of the language of ‘choice’ that comes as a result of this access. In previous generations pregnancy and raising children was more or less inevitable for women, but now for a couple of generations we’ve been able to get used to the idea that it is a choice whether or not to try to become pregnant and whether or not to keep a pregnancy and raise a family.

The way we talk about this ‘choice’ effects those women who struggle the most with pregnancy, childbirth and parenting.

When a woman in a stable relationship chooses to try to become pregnant, succeeds in a reasonable timeframe, has a healthy and more or less comfortable pregnancy, survives childbirth with minimal scarring and goes on to raise healthy, able-bodied, neuro-typical children, we celebrate her choice, even though most of those elements are down to luck more than judgement.

When a woman actively chooses not to have children, succeeds in avoiding pregnancy, and continues to feel she made the right choice by the time she is menopausal, we celebrate her choice. This is perhaps more sensible as most of the elements here are at least within the woman’s control!

When a woman chooses to become pregnant outside of a stable relationship, or outside of a very comfortable standard of living, and decides to keep the baby, we question her choice- it may be foolish or naive- and use this as a reason to withhold support.

When a woman suffers illness or injury during pregnancy, such as HG or SPD or gestational diabetes, or is simply too tired and achey and indegestion-y and hormonal to make it through the day, we remind her that pregnancy is a choice she made and so withhold sympathy and support.

When a woman suffers terrible birth injuries we remind her that pregnancy was her choice, and she should have accounted for these possibilities in making her choice.

When a child is not healthy, able-bodied or neuro-typical we remind the mother that no one obliged her to carry her children to term, that it is reasonable to abort if you feel unable to cope with caring for a disabled child (though not everyone has this ‘opportunity’) and that it is highly unfair to expect society to pick up the burden created by one woman’s reproductive choices. We use this as an excuse to withhold support and empathy.

So Aibu to think the language of ‘choice’ is not always helpful to women.

When you talk about support, what do you mean? Do you have examples of support (such as healthcare, financial support etc) being withheld from women in the circumstances you describe?

If you mean that society can judge women harshly for their choices, that's not new. But I don't think that's a reason not to have choices.

Who is this 'we' who are withholding support for birth injuries, tough pregnancies or having a child with a disability?

I don't recognise most of what you're saying at all.

As a woman who had terrible sickness while pregnant to the extent that I lost weight during pregnancy and was thinner after childbirth than before, having to work even though unable to keep food down, was unable to be hospitalised because I could keep warm lemonade down, I remember being sat behind the till at work and a Male customer asked for something I had to get up to get and he said 'oh come on your pregnant not ill' literally no sympathy at all because it was my choice and women do it all the time.

Oh sure, there are examples all over mumsnet.

”She doesn’t deserve a seat on the bus more than anyone else, she’s just a little bit pregnant and any way that’s a lifestyle choice she made” being one frequent if trivial example.

“I wouldn’t pick up someone else’s DCfrom school/drop them off at football with mine/look after them while their DM goes to an antenatal scan- that’s what DPs are for and anyway why is she having another DC if she can’t sort childcare for the first” is another frequent and less trivial example.

Women always had a choice though, except it was between giving birth or having an unsafe (not always illegal) abortion.

No one said that all the consequences of having choice would be positive ones, and nor do they need to be in order for choice to be a wonderful and vital freedom to have.

@takealettermsjones I am not suggesting removing options from women, I am saying that the language we use about ‘choosing’ puts an unhelpful emphasis on individual agency in situations where so much is outside of an individual’s control.

Its kind of a bait and switch at a societal level - as if to say “of course you can make reproductive choices, just know that we, society, will now hold you to account for all aspects relating to those choices. If you want independence in these matters you’ll be completely on your own if you run into difficulty.”

What has that got to do with choice? People are free to make those same judgement calls regardless of whether a woman gets to choose to keep a pregnancy or not.

Mumsnet skews weirdly insular and selfish. In my actual life I don't know anyone who would refuse to support women in these situations because they made their 'choice'

How are those attitudes different from those found in the past? Instead of being ‘judged’ for continuing a pregnancy though, they were judged for having sex and leading men astray. There was also far, far less social support than there is now, though.

When a woman chooses to become pregnant outside of a stable relationship, or outside of a very comfortable standard of living, and decides to keep the baby, we question her choice- it may be foolish or naive- and use this as a reason to withhold support.

Well, yes, it was a bad choice and people need to be accountable for their choices. But what type of support are you meaning? Most people of course support family/friends where they can, regardless of the validity of their choices. If someone needs a significant amount of extra support beyond what is usual and others feel they can't or don't want to give it, it is not "withholding support", they are simply prioritising their own wellbeing/family which they have the right to do.

The rest of you post is bonkers. I have next experienced anything like that. Of course you will always meet the odd twat, but generally most people are sympathetic to anyone suffering from pregnancy related suffering or outcomes.

@whumpthereitis ‘choice’ is often the explicit accusation. “You chose to be pregnant therefore [insert my judgemental actions toward you] are justified.”

It is also frequently implied “I can’t choose to inflict a disabled sibling on DS” implies that the woman raising a disabled DC did ‘choose to inflict’ that on her family.

Also it’s not about the consequences of having choices being positive or negative- there are many good and bad things in life- not about having options per se in life- but about the way we use the specific language and implications of ‘choice’ to enable us to judge and hurt women.

I see what you’re saying but at the same time some people repeatedly make terrible choices that impact their own lives and those of other people. The same choice made under different circumstances can be the difference between a rational one and a bad one. I think the reason some threads degenerate so badly on here is that some posters ability to make their own lives harder as a result of their own choices is quite staggering.

‘You chose to have sex, therefore you must deal with the consequences, harlot’

’You chose to bring the disabled baby home from the hospital, and you’re choosing not to drop him off at the orphanage. This is your own fault’

women have always been held accountable, whether they had choices or not.

Can you link to those threads. Context is everything.

A lot of these things are choices. I'm a fan of calling a spade a spade. For most women, becoming pregnant is a choice, as is choosing whether or not to end that pregnancy. That applies even in the example of having a disabled DC you gave above - the woman has to make a (monumentally difficult, of course) choice in that scenario (if told about the condition in utero). It's still a choice.

If people are using these facts to be dicks to mothers, then that's a separate issue, but I'm just saying I don't agree that it's the language that's at fault, or that we should stop using that language. It's just a problem with...well, people being dicks.

@Arguelikeagrownup thats interesting! I think you’re perhaps right about mumsnet but isn’t it interesting that in ‘private’, or at least anonymously, people feel free to round on women so ferociously for their choices…

@takealettermsjones yes, there are lots of choices, options, decisions in life.

For instance you could have gone for a meal at The Fat Duck after reading all the glowing reviews and ended up in hospital with norovirus. But the bit that is different here from scenarios involving reproductive choices, is that you wouldn’t then have people haranguing the poorly foodie to say “it was your own choice to eat in a restaurant and you knew illness was a possible if unlikely result, therefore you must own your choice, soldier on and stop complaining.’

Something about the combination of women+reproduction+choice seems to result in a special kind of judgemental response.

Yes I completely get what you're saying. I'm just saying that I don't think it's the language of calling it a choice (or it actually being a choice nowadays) that's the problem. It's people thinking that you're not allowed to ask for help or support, choice or not. Were people more willing to help mothers before the pill was invented? 🤔(Genuinely don't know!)

I lost a very long reply, the gist of which was I think that it is exactly that language we use which gives people permission to make harsh judgements.

We say that something is, or can, or should be a choice and ascribe lots of moral significance to those choices and people feel free to be judgemental and horrid safely convinced that they will make ‘better’ choices and can control their life so as to never risk being in the position of the person they judge.

My only thoughts about this is that children or not is seen as a lifestyle choice. When it is just life. I think this view is a loaded idea which often isn't helpful sometimes.

I just want to say thank you for your beautifully eloquent words.

I also read that thread about the train and people refusing to stand quoting again and again the old chestnut 'they're pregnant, not ill' and 'pregnancy is a choice'.

I had a very traumatic HG pregnancy recently and am devastated by comments like that. Pregnancy was a choice, debilitating HG for 8 months wasn't. I have zero family history of it, it completely blindsided me and still keeps me awake at night 6 months postpartum. The only real choice I had was termination (of my very wanted and planned pregnancy) which I couldn't go through with.

Thank you for putting it into words.

@Pineapple9210 Thank you, that’s so kind. I think I read your short-lived thread earlier this afternoon so I’m glad if my words were helpful to you.

Im so sorry about your pregnancy- I also had HG in my pregnancies so I understand some of the feelings- and just because you could have used a condom or opted for termination doesn’t mean you aren’t deserving of support and sympathy when enduring such a miserable experience.

I hope you’re feeling better now and enjoying your new family.

I'm relieved at least one person understood what I was trying to say rather than just ripping into me. It was a very clumsy analogy and I actually requested the thread to be removed because I never wanted to offend or upset anyone. I was only trying to highlight what it feels like to have your pain and suffering diminished so cruelly by comparing my suffering to a different type of suffering which isn't dismissed (and rightly so!) Cue the immediate comments about my 'choice'.

You're absolutely lovely and have cheered me up big time. I adore being a mum, thank you ❤ hope you're doing well too.

You're right. I was disabled by pregnancy and quickly learned to tell people otherwise the hostility I faced for being disabled with a baby (aka bad choice) was really depressing.

It also gives men a dirty out (they pretend it's a contraceptive choice open to the woman after the fact when it may not be for her).

Most women, at least in the developed world, have access to contraception and have the freedom to choose whether they would like to have children or not, and if they become pregnant by accident, they can choose whether to continue with the pregnancy or not.

In years gone by, they had no choice in the matter at all.

What other word do you suggest instead?