To think the language of ‘choice’ is not always helpful

[AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman]

Of course access to contraception and reproductive health services is a Very Good Thing and is linked in clear and obvious ways to improvements in health and economic outcomes for women globally.

But there is an interesting side effect of the language of ‘choice’ that comes as a result of this access. In previous generations pregnancy and raising children was more or less inevitable for women, but now for a couple of generations we’ve been able to get used to the idea that it is a choice whether or not to try to become pregnant and whether or not to keep a pregnancy and raise a family.

The way we talk about this ‘choice’ effects those women who struggle the most with pregnancy, childbirth and parenting.

When a woman in a stable relationship chooses to try to become pregnant, succeeds in a reasonable timeframe, has a healthy and more or less comfortable pregnancy, survives childbirth with minimal scarring and goes on to raise healthy, able-bodied, neuro-typical children, we celebrate her choice, even though most of those elements are down to luck more than judgement.

When a woman actively chooses not to have children, succeeds in avoiding pregnancy, and continues to feel she made the right choice by the time she is menopausal, we celebrate her choice. This is perhaps more sensible as most of the elements here are at least within the woman’s control!

When a woman chooses to become pregnant outside of a stable relationship, or outside of a very comfortable standard of living, and decides to keep the baby, we question her choice- it may be foolish or naive- and use this as a reason to withhold support.

When a woman suffers illness or injury during pregnancy, such as HG or SPD or gestational diabetes, or is simply too tired and achey and indegestion-y and hormonal to make it through the day, we remind her that pregnancy is a choice she made and so withhold sympathy and support.

When a woman suffers terrible birth injuries we remind her that pregnancy was her choice, and she should have accounted for these possibilities in making her choice.

When a child is not healthy, able-bodied or neuro-typical we remind the mother that no one obliged her to carry her children to term, that it is reasonable to abort if you feel unable to cope with caring for a disabled child (though not everyone has this ‘opportunity’) and that it is highly unfair to expect society to pick up the burden created by one woman’s reproductive choices. We use this as an excuse to withhold support and empathy.

So Aibu to think the language of ‘choice’ is not always helpful to women.

So much word salad I couldn’t really keep up with it tbh

This. YABU.

The problem isn't the word "choice". The problem is the choice to apply the word choice to things relating to the choice which were not actually chosen. The choice to be an utter arehole is problematic in any circumstance.
In my case I chose to become pregnant. I didn't choose for that pregnancy to cause my liver and kidneys to fail and my baby to die at 33 weeks.
I have had precisely zero issues with any of my organs before or since that pregnancy so be this was definitely not a choice. I had never even heard of the condition before.

@Judgyjudgy and @MamaCanYouBuyMeABanana there are examples on this thread of women who found support and compassion was withheld from them.

@Yousee I’m so sorry you had that experience, it sounds devastating. I think you make a really good point. It’s fine to refer to the initial decision to use contraception or not as a choice- it often is a choice. But conflating that initial choice with all of the consequences that might follow and calling the whole thing ‘the choice to become pregnant’ is hugely problematic

@Snaketime Im sorry you had such a rough pregnancy, but having had HG myself I know exactly what you’re describing with that customer. I hope your experience of motherhood has been much more pleasant since your DC was born.

OP I agree with you. Not just because there is an element of luck and good fortune, but because we don't know individual circumstances of most people. Choice may be a valid word in some limited way (such as when talking about the options for an unplanned pregnancy) but not in the wider context and all the situations you describe.

Thank you. It has been a mix as I had PND with my first who had since been diagnosed with hyper mobility syndrome, DCD, ADHD, potential IBS and is borderline for autism. My second potentially has ADHD too.

HG sucks, I hope your experience of motherhood has been a much better experience too.

The only people I've seen pushing 'pregnancy as a choice' in a derogatory way
(ie 'you chose to get pregnant so suck it up') are men who twist the word 'equality' to mean 'identical treatment'.

@Languagelanguage I’m so sorry you went through that. And how terrible to then have to be defensively telling people all about private, sensitive information for fear of further judgement.

You’re right about the out for men too… so depressing

I’ve definitely seen that happen and it is Not Nice. Somehow though I find it more upsetting when other women do it.

It is that by framing this fundamental human right/biological purpose as a lifestyle choice, we are reducing it to some sort of luxury that is gatekept for those who can afford it, are sensible enough to do it 'properly', and have only themselves to blame if it goes wrong? Or have I misunderstood?

No @5128gap I think you articulated that really nicely!

But is indeed a choice. It’s a human right yes, and a biological urge (rather than purpose, as if it’s by design), but it is still a choice.

Thanks @LlynTegid you put that really well

Of course they haven't always had that choice. What utter bullshit.

Not always legally, not always with social approval and not always without, but abortion techniques have been utilized for millennia. Even today, roughly half of all worldwide abortions occur in countries where it is illegal.

That is why ‘pro life’ laws don’t work, because they don’t stop abortions, they just put women in danger.

I think you might be overthinking it tbh.

I get what you’re saying, but that’s language for you. No real alternative is there?

What a load of rubbish.

I think you're making something from nothing. But I don't expect you or many to agree. People will always judge - as you are now. It's normal. What's good, what's bad, what do we a society approve and what do we not. Otherwise how can we have a society, (which is a group held together by common values?) They / we judge everything - not just having kids. And it;s how we evolve.

And I also think we should be accountable for our choices. What we eat, how hard we work, what we spend, how we partner up, how many kids we have, how much we drink, whether we decide to break the law or not... Our choice. But there should also be compassion and support for those who have rough luck or for whom things don't work out.

Overall I don't think support is deliberately withheld though - and the woman who has two kids in a stable relationship with both partners working gets far less from the state than the mother with no home, no funds, no partner.

So I think you are making something out of nothing. But I don't expect anyone to agree.

@pinkySilver I do agree with you that people are very quick to judge and draw boundaries in life. And common values are useful and important. I also agree that there should be accountability for choices that we make, especially choices that have a negative impact on others such as theft or violence.

Where I disagree is about which things are real, meaningful choices. What we eat, how hard we work, how many kids we have etc are framed as choices but individuals don’t actually have a lot of control a lot of the time. If we hold somebody accountable for a ‘choice’ that wasn’t freely made, or for an unexpected consequence of an earlier choice, we often end up simply being cruel.

But there are some choices that are so common amongst human beings they are viewed differently, in some cases the right to them actually protected by laws ( the right to family life) as such they tend to be viewed differently from the choice to buy a new sofa or go on holiday.
The choice to live as adults with some independence and autonomy, to share our lives with a partner, to live in communities with other people. No one would tell someone struggling with their bills it was their choice to move out of the parental home at 35, or tell someone abused in a relationship it was their choice to live with a partner in the first place. Though those too are choices.
Yet if i understand OPs point correctly, a woman struggling with parenting is told it was her choice, so get on with it in a way that's not applied to comparable choices.

Affects, not effects.

Also YABU.

Actually they may well be told that.

Level of incidence does not negate that they are indeed choices. Easy or hard, with or without ‘worthy’ or understandable motivations, they are choices nonetheless. Biological urge is not determinism, as we are not governed solely by instinct but have the capacity to be rational. Individual responsibility for said choices cannot be, and arguably should not be, disavowed.

‘Choice’ may be used as a weapon, but so is the idea that women aren’t in fact capable of choice and are creatures governed by hormones. People who are inclined to attack women will do so anyway, no matter the words they use to do so.

I’m really interested by a common theme from @Yousee @Pineapple9210 and @Languagelanguage

They all three have described how the problem they encountered was unforeseen- I wasn’t disabled when I chose to get pregnant, I had no reason to expect I’d suffer HG, my organs were totally fine before pregnancy.

I think this is a direct consequence of the way we talk about choice. Women feel they have to assert that the problem was utterly unexpected, to prove that their original choice was valid and correct, in order to be heard and to receive sympathy or support.

If there is such pressure around reproductive choice and the way we discuss it, where does this leave the woman who has terrible HG and then chooses a second pregnancy? Or the woman with CP who wants to start a family? If their journey through pregnancy and child rearing is not smooth, do they deserve support?