Manager said no to holiday request

[Buddythecat1]

I'm probably going to get my arse handed to me on a plate here but fck it.
I asked for two days off on Monday just passed
I asked 10 days in advance.
Just been told today that it's been refused.
I asked why, was told 'I don't know'

I am very hot headed and I have such strong temptation to walk put right now. (I have another thread about my contract if anybody cares)
I've been spoken to like shit by this manager, talked down to on a daily basis, I've been micromanaged.
I dread coming to work, I cry most days. Management allowed another employee to verbally abuse me and no consequences were ever brought to the other person.

Would I be totally unreasonable to walk out? The thought of never having to work in this place again gives me great relief. Or am I just being stupid and should suck it up

@Whatsshecalled not with that short notice.

You need to get signed off sick. Do you get sick pay?? If you do then take the maximum. And whilst off sick concentrate on getting another job.

I was liked out of a job after about 6 weeks due to workplace bullying. As per my job pay and conditions I was signed off sick - 6 months full pay. I actually wanted to resign but my GP advised sick leave to calm down and think about it and said I wasn’t in a position to make a rational decision about leaving. But the sick leave made me more stressed, especially on a weekend when I could potentially bump into the manager as they lived in the same town. I was eventually called into occupational health to discuss returning to work. At that point I told them the only way forward was for me to leave. They said if my GP was ok to sign me back as for to work then I could resign, so I did. I was able to resign with immediate effect rather than the usual notice period for my role. I could have had another 6 months off on half pay if I’d really wanted to but I knew for my own sanity I needed to leave. It was the best thing I ever did. But I was lucky in that my contracted pay and conditions allowed this, even 6 weeks into the role - I’d done 7 years in the same sector at a previous employer and I think continuous service might follow through, but not 100% sure.

I also managed to argue my case with the job centre to be able to collect JSA - contribution based for a fixed period of time. It I was actually offered a temporary job (nothing to do with my career) for a few months somewhere that knew me and needed someone and knew I could do the job. Whilst working that job I was able to apply for jobs in my field and similar fields.

Was liked - walked !!

No, it works both ways. The employee has to give two days notice for each day requested, plus one day. If the employer wants an employee to take time off they only have to give the same amount of notice as the number of days they want the employee to take.

You don’t sound like the easiest/most reasonable employee….but it’s your life, isn’t it. If it’s not working for you, and you’re employable elsewhere- off you pop!

FWIW, my job is 12m notice for AL. I would never think it was automatic that I got the dates I wanted.

‘Double the time you’re asking for off in advance’ has been standard in my contracts, so two days off needs four days notice. YANBU, there are better jobs out there, apply for everything and get out.

FFS the OP has given the legal amount of notice for the days off she wants to take. Her contract states ‘reasonable notice’ and in the absence of a defined notice period, it reverts to the legal minimum. The employer should give a reason for refusing ANY leave as it has to be for operational reasons. If they don’t, the employee is entitled to raise a grievance if they have abided by the minimum notice period.

Schools must be dead accommodating where you are, or maybe it's post-Covid, but in 21 years of primary and post-primary schools, parent-teacher meetings were held during the teaching day.

Anyway @Buddythecat1 those days ought to have been annual leave not parental leave. I'd never have used a precious day's leave for a child's birthday though; maybe half a day if they were having a party, maximum - and you have 4 to accommodate.

I think you could write formally requesting that those parental leave days revert to annual leave. It's perfectly reasonable to outline commitments during a recruitment process. That would cut down the number of days' absence. I'd take that opportunity to set out the fact that you are entitled to breaks that you're actively being denied. That's dreadful that you are forced to eat in the toilet! I had to hide my inoffensive, non smelly sandwich in a drawer for a year and a half, making sure the coast was clear so I could open the drawer and take a bite, without toxic manager seeing me as she had forbidden me to eat at my desk (yes, just me!)

What exactly are they "investigating" anyway? How do they think they could ever 'prove' you weren't ill when you say you were? Nonsense. They are thick as well as toxic!

I imagine the sick pay scheme will be pretty shite as well. All sounds very dodgy but unfortunately you don't have the service to take them on. However you might be able to delay things while you jobhunt if you are signed off with work-related stress. Legally they have to at least take you through a "three step process" to terminate your employment, and you could prolong that process by saying that you are not well enough to attend meetings. It wouldn't be a lie either - you're stressed to the eyeballs!

There are some total idiots of posters on this thread too - don't let them get to you. I've been bullied, and that's what's happening to you. The micromanaging and constant, unreasonable fault finding grinds you right down when it's happening on a daily basis.

Very best of luck with your interview! When you do leave the shithole, make sure you have an exit interview with someone more senior than your managers, and tell them exactly why you're leaving!

Did you miss the part where the OP is already under investigation for the amount of sick leave she has taken so far ? And that she doesn’t have two years service, so could be sacked for taking any more ?

My oldest is 13 and it’s always been stated in the parents evening emails that if you can’t make an appointment but would still like to have the opportunity to talk to your child’s teacher to contact the school and they will arrange for either phone or Email contact to be made.

That is totally, utterly unreasonable - how the heck do you work with that as a parent?

Why would anyone ever want to work for an organisation with so little concern or respect for their employees?

Guess they never learned the words, 'work-life balance'!!

Our schools didn't organise that. I suppose they might have facilitated it grudgingly if a parent asked them to. My kids range 19-25.

My job is awful in many many ways. But one thing they are great at is annual leave. We only have to give one week's notice for annual leave , and every time I alhave asked for it it got approved.

The last time I asked: I gave one week's notice to take off two weeks annual leave. They approved it the next day.

This thread has made me appreciate how good they are with annual leave

Unless the OP has notified a disability which has protection under the Equality Act, or is pregnant, the employer has no obligation to allow time off for hospital appointments. They can request that the appointment is booked in the employee’s own time wherever possible or allow it as unpaid time off. Most decent employers would allow paid time off, but the OP’s employer sounds like an arse.

Well I do, with three children, and another stepfamily in the mix. My husband works also.

I work for the NHS. if we don’t request it a year in advance, it’s randomly allocated in dribs and drabs, or sold back. I did a shift swap for my own wedding. Not whinging, just how it is! Don’t vote Tory please.

My manager (and I, as a more junior manager), do the utmost to keep everyone’s balance- but yeah…NHS.

I just can’t relate to the OP!

@DotAndCarryOne2 well that depends on her contract. It’s not fixed in law. And they aren’t required to give you a reason.

Not being allowed a break even though she’s working over six hours a day and legally entitled to one - and being forced to eat lunch in the toilet as as result.

Giving the required advance notice of booking leave and having it refused without a reason.

Being spoken to like shit by managers and other staff members.

Having sick leave investigated and parental leave lumped in with sick leave (which is illegal).

And you think she’s unreasonable ?

The OP has already stated that her contract states ‘reasonable notice’ - as stated in the post you have quoted. This means that if they don’t state a defined time period it reverts to the legal minimum, which IS fixed in law - 2 days notice for each day requested, plus one day, which the OP complied with. And the employer has to justify refusing leave, because it has to be for business operational reasons - for example busy periods, or too many staff off at one time. If they don’t give a reason, the OP is entitled to raise a grievance on the grounds she is being treated unfairly.

Reading all you have said I think you are a tad difficult to be honest. Also if the job could be done by 1 person instead of you both, why are you sitting down when you should be working.

Gov.gg says "almost all people classed as workers" are entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday a year, which I make 39 days. They can take bank holidays out of that which is 8 days. However, in six months you should still have accrued 15.5 days. You need to see their policies / rules on agreeing holiday because they can't refuse you permission to take holiday so you don't get to use it, unless they pay you for it. They can limit your holiday to the year with no rollover, so you need to get clarification on that.

Oh come on 😂 surely everyone has a five minute sit down to sip some water, when it gets quiet?
The other employee is a smoker, she's outside smoking every hour.
But yet manager 2 came down hard on me for having a sit down

I can't relate to you either because I don't think I'd ever work anywhere that required you to have holidays booked 12 months in advance, that's crazy!
And like I said I emailed manager 1 in October, for two days holiday the next week, it was granted with only 5 days notice

And that 5 days notice included two non working weekend days, so manager 1 would've only noticed the request upon returning to work
Making it 3 days notice

@DotAndCarryOne2 no. You’re wrong.

It sounds horrendous. No one should have to put up with that, if you can manage financially and feel confident about getting another job soon then leave. No job is worth that kind of stress and treatment. I've done it a few times in my working life and I have zero regrets.