Page 8 | I think my boss is scared of me - should I call it out?

CaponeOnTax · 2023-02-15T00:58:14+00:00

My boss is very able and experienced but not a massive people person so we’re a small team. We’re each other’s key colleague. What’s bothering me is my boss seems to dread being in a room one-to-one with me. I don’t know if it is weird or AIBU to think it is weird or what. Around November my boss took me into a meeting room to give me what he thought was a dressing down (closed door). It didn’t go well, I had plenty to say from my side and HR ended up involved. After that, any meetings he instigated were either with the door open or in weird places round the office without doors, so in open plan. A marked change from previous years of working together. We’re both mainly WFH so it doesn’t come up much and I thought we’d got through it. But again today we had a meeting and he left the door open. The implication seems to be that I am too unpredictable/toxic/not sure what really? to be in a room with. I find it hurtful, unprofessional and odd but … should I say something? YABU - he can leave the door open if that’s how he prefers it, everyone’s entitled to feel at ease YANBU - weird and unprofessional, you need to be able to work in a meeting room in your company’s office with the door shut.

workistoomuch · 15/02/2023 19:35

SlaveToTheVibe · 15/02/2023 08:17

You sound quite aggressive OP. And what do you mean by “call it out” -anyway? He’s your boss not the other way around. Are you going to be running off to HR?

I am from an investment banking background and in every bank I have ever worked it was policy to leave door open a crack for 1-2 meetings when opposite sexes. This is to prevent claims of sexual wrongdoing. if your previous issue was sexual or sex based discrimination, he may just be following HR advice.

You DO NOT sound aggressive. You sound like someone who can stick up for themselves. Good god.

ILoveCreamCrackersMe · 15/02/2023 19:42

I would definitely have to ask, "why do you always leave the door open?" So yes, call him out.

“Because I want to"....

Then what are you going to say? If you keep pushing it you'll start to come across a lunatic.

Lindycg · 15/02/2023 19:49

Surely its more beneficial for you to go for the open door policy? With such a policy he's ensuring nothing can be misconstrued - by either of you and leads to both being answerable should any questions from others are raised.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/02/2023 19:56

In three pages, we've gone from "not a massive people person" to a horrible bully with a mean streak who "works hard" to make you cry

Indeed - and that's without the "controlling", suggestions of discrimination and the rest, which are escaling with nearly every post

I normally avoid commenting on issues like this if I wasn't there, but to me it seems pretty clear why this man wants to protect himself; I'll even agree with a PP who said HR may well have suggested it

Original poster

CaponeOnTax · 15/02/2023 20:09

Indeed - and that's without the "controlling", suggestions of discrimination and the rest, which are escaling with nearly every post

Don’t be ridiculous. I said he had a mean streak in my OP post-script. Anything else has been in response to questions. Nothing is ‘escaling’.

OP posts:

Jimboscott0115 · 15/02/2023 20:17

CaponeOnTax · 15/02/2023 18:07

Thanks for all the replies.

Office meetings 1:1 are part of the job and necessarily often involve discussing sensitive client matters or administrative people matters - a closed door is standard. As I noted, Senior Person in my office told me to shut the door. If this isn’t standard in your work environment, then this probably isn’t going to seem much of a dilemma to you.

In my OP, I really wasn’t sure if IWBU but airing this on this thread, and some of the more hysterical replies, have convinced me I am not. It’s not appropriate for meetings to be conducted door open for what we do and how we do it. Thanks to those posters who picked up this point. Either meetings are closed door or they can be Teams only. The door open thing is about him being uncomfortable or him wanting me to be uncomfortable - either way, it’s not productive, and there are alternatives.

I now know what to do next: keep the situation under review as I have done, and revert to Senior Person if it continues to happen over the next few weeks.

This thread is a reminder that as a woman, there are always people looking to shriek ‘troublemaker/waterworks/aggressive’ at a professional doing her job in a competitive environment. Posters picking up on me crying (on that occasion) or on me having ‘plenty to say’ when I stuck up for myself are all just part of the downward pressure on women.

Yeah, you've just convinced me that you're hard work here. It's standard practice in these sorts of situations to reduce conflict, offer an easy exit path if things get tense and of course to protect the boss from accusations. I've worked across various industries in various forms at management and senior levels, this isn't as unusual as you somehow think.

You've had more people say something along these lines then have said you're absolutely right which just shows you only wanted validation, not opinions.

CatA27 · 15/02/2023 20:23

ILoveCreamCrackersMe · 15/02/2023 19:42

I would definitely have to ask, "why do you always leave the door open?" So yes, call him out.

“Because I want to"....

Then what are you going to say? If you keep pushing it you'll start to come across a lunatic.

"But we are discussing sensitive matters, do you mind if I close it?" Nothing lunatic about that! Maybe they ought to have glass sided meeting rooms like we do in much of the public sector, no one can hear but could see if anyone was having problems

Sage71 · 15/02/2023 20:28

Not sure this went how you were expecting I have to agree it is most likely he is protecting himself and I can’t say I blame him looking at your original post and additional responses. In addition it is likely he has your Zoom calls recorded so he is covering himself there also. I have to say he is the boss so I am unsure why you feel you should be dictating the situation.

ElonsMusky · 15/02/2023 20:32

SchoolQuestionnaire · 15/02/2023 18:48

Op didn’t get HR involved, her boss notified them.

I’m shocked that your husband holds all 1-1 meetings in a coffee shop. How on earth can he provide delicate feedback or expect his team to confide in him about any issues they are experiencing in a public place? It may be unfair, but I tend to think that any man who is so concerned about being accused of sexual harassment that they will not be alone with a woman in the workplace has something on his conscience. Either that or he’s using it as an excuse to be a piss poor manager that can’t be bothered to adequately develop and support his team.

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It didn't say in the OP who called HR. Regardless, once HR is involved any manager would be out of their damn mind to privately interact with the employee at issue.

I know the coffee shop he uses for meetings. It's small and quiet. He gets a booth in the corner. He's had meetings with his boss (a female Partner) there too. If a meeting is really SO sensitive that it can't be held in a quiet corner of a coffee shop, then it probably should be held in the presence of HR anyway.

"It may be unfair, but I tend to think that any man who is so concerned about being accused of sexual harassment that they will not be alone with a woman in the workplace has something on his conscience."

It is what it is. I shared a story of a colleague/friend of mine that some psychotic female employee tried to do to him. He will never meet a woman alone again. I don't blame him at all. I bet the Duke Lacrosse team learned that lesson too. To pretend as if women don't make false claims out of spite or some other motive is silly and naive.

MisschiefMaker · 15/02/2023 20:48

@ElonsMusky women get abused by men all the time but it's simply not feasible to avoid being alone with them and would be, in my opinion, very discriminatory to tar all men with the same brush just because some of them are violent.

How would you react to a woman who said she would never be alone with a man because she had a friend who had been assaulted by a man? Would you also consider that fair enough? I don't know any woman who behaves like that, despite the fact that far more women are raped than there are men who are falsely accused. Your DH's attitude reeks of sexism and "poor men" if you ask me.

ElonsMusky · 15/02/2023 21:08

MisschiefMaker · 15/02/2023 20:48

@ElonsMusky women get abused by men all the time but it's simply not feasible to avoid being alone with them and would be, in my opinion, very discriminatory to tar all men with the same brush just because some of them are violent.

How would you react to a woman who said she would never be alone with a man because she had a friend who had been assaulted by a man? Would you also consider that fair enough? I don't know any woman who behaves like that, despite the fact that far more women are raped than there are men who are falsely accused. Your DH's attitude reeks of sexism and "poor men" if you ask me.

I'll be sure to let my husband know that the sexist lady on the internet thinks he's sexist.

MisschiefMaker · 15/02/2023 21:16

@ElonsMusky eh? Are you saying I'm sexist because I don't think either men or women should be demonised because of the actions of a minority?

Either your reading comprehension isn't too good or we have very different definitions of the word sexist!

ElonsMusky · 15/02/2023 21:21

MisschiefMaker · 15/02/2023 21:16

@ElonsMusky eh? Are you saying I'm sexist because I don't think either men or women should be demonised because of the actions of a minority?

Either your reading comprehension isn't too good or we have very different definitions of the word sexist!

you think it's "sexist" for a man to cover his ass.

I told a story about my coworker multiple times who was falsely accused during the height of #metoo. He was a new dad and was terrified about losing his job. Luckily the deranged woman making the accusation and overstepped threatening to shoot up our office. Had she not done that the mantra #BelieveWoman may have prevailed and he's have been ruined.

So yeah, my husband meets in a coffee shop to avoid shit like that.

Let me ask you a hypothetical. Assuming you're married to a man you actually love and have children with...that you've built a life with....How would you feel if he got fired over a bogus accusation by a disgruntled female subordinate? Would you just be like "oh well a lot of women do get abused, so on the balance, my husband's life being destroyed is fine".

Original poster

CaponeOnTax · 15/02/2023 21:22

Not sure this went how you were expecting I have to agree it is most likely he is protecting himself and I can’t say I blame him looking at your original post and additional responses. In addition it is likely he has your Zoom calls recorded so he is covering himself there also. I have to say he is the boss so I am unsure why you feel you should be dictating the situation.

’Dictating’? @Sage71 That’s quite a strange choice of word - maybe a bit pointed and spiteful. I’ve not tried to control the situation so far In so I can’t help wonder what brings this sort of thing out in posters. Should subordinates never feed-in to their own situation at work? That would be dictating?

You ‘can’t say you blame him’?

There’s so much baked-in sexism on this thread - it’s true I wasn’t expecting quite that much.

OP posts:

XanaduKira · 15/02/2023 21:27

Butchyrestingface · 15/02/2023 08:40

The thing is, Teams calls are much more ‘closed door’ than the office.

He could be recording those - on his phone if not via Teams.

I'd leave it. You only meet up in this way infrequently. Seems a sensible precaution on his part and something he may have been advised to do by HR.

I thought exactly the same thing - he's likely to be recording the Teams meetings on his phone.

I'd leave it Op.

steff13 · 15/02/2023 21:35

What does someone do to work hard to make you cry?

He's likely leaving he door open to cover himself, which is sensible when dealing with someone he's already had a run-in with.

Original poster

CaponeOnTax · 15/02/2023 21:37

Isn’t there a black band across a Teams call telling you they are recorded? Pretty sure he isn’t recording calls.

OP posts:

steff13 · 15/02/2023 21:38

Octopusmittens · 15/02/2023 17:16

’call it out’ sounds aggressive from the get go.

Yes, it's an aggressive phrase, that's why people are viewing the OP as aggressive.

Original poster

CaponeOnTax · 15/02/2023 21:47

I accept that ‘call out’ is a clickbaity title - and I knew I’d get a lot of frothy replies for that - but in fairness 1) I’ve been on MN a lonnnggg time and know how to get people to click on my thread and 2) I did clarify in a very early post it was ‘say something’.

OP posts:

Liorae · 15/02/2023 21:58

CaponeOnTax · 15/02/2023 21:37

Isn’t there a black band across a Teams call telling you they are recorded? Pretty sure he isn’t recording calls.

Some companies (mine included) record all teams calls

XanaduKira · 15/02/2023 23:14

CaponeOnTax · 15/02/2023 21:37

Isn’t there a black band across a Teams call telling you they are recorded? Pretty sure he isn’t recording calls.

Yes there is, but that wouldn't stop him recording it separately on his phone (having his phone beside the laptop speakers etc) & you'd be none the wiser as there'd be no notifications.

CatA27 · 15/02/2023 23:42

ElonsMusky · 15/02/2023 20:32

It didn't say in the OP who called HR. Regardless, once HR is involved any manager would be out of their damn mind to privately interact with the employee at issue.

I know the coffee shop he uses for meetings. It's small and quiet. He gets a booth in the corner. He's had meetings with his boss (a female Partner) there too. If a meeting is really SO sensitive that it can't be held in a quiet corner of a coffee shop, then it probably should be held in the presence of HR anyway.

"It may be unfair, but I tend to think that any man who is so concerned about being accused of sexual harassment that they will not be alone with a woman in the workplace has something on his conscience."

It is what it is. I shared a story of a colleague/friend of mine that some psychotic female employee tried to do to him. He will never meet a woman alone again. I don't blame him at all. I bet the Duke Lacrosse team learned that lesson too. To pretend as if women don't make false claims out of spite or some other motive is silly and naive.

Show quote history

I dont work in a particularly overly sensitive line of work but most conversations I have with colleagues shouldn't be held in a coffee shop!

Butterflywings84 · 16/02/2023 00:00

Having read all of this it sounds like a very strange working relationship and I guess there is more to it all than is coming across on here. Why would your boss constantly try to make you cry? Does he do this to other people? Has anyone taken this to HR? Do you actually enjoy working with him?

You say the door is closed when he instigates a meeting - does that mean if you are the one to ask for a meeting the door is open or was the OP not intended to make that distinction?

if he is as mean as you suggest I can’t see that bringing it up specifically will make any difference and may just add further strain. But if it really does cause confidentiality issues then the suggestion to request the door closed for specific matters sounds sensible.

alternatively he may well be doing it to make you feel more comfortable if he is concerned about upsetting you previously and doesn’t want you to feel threatened etc (and to cover his own back).

either way it sounds like the working relationship is not entirely healthy and not sure how you take that forward long term.

Anotherparkingthread · 16/02/2023 01:43

I don't know how you can accuse posters of being sexist for just agreeing with a man. If he was a woman I'd tell him to keep the door open when in meetings with you as well, you sound like a nightmare.

You can easily record teams calls, so I'd be very surprised if he wasn't. I know I would be in his shoes.

You need to get a grip and just let it go. He's taking precautions do avoid further incidents with you, and keep himself safe. He is entitled to do that.
If you don't like that then you should work on yourself, and address what it that in your behaviour that would make another person feel threatened and also your own inability to handle any form of perceived criticism. Him protecting himself isn't a personal attack on you, if you can't handle that you maybe need some therapy.

Doingmybest12 · 16/02/2023 02:14

I think it is fair enough for you to ask why he is leaving the door open if this is not usual . I would think if there is an issue this should be shared and I would want to know this was an agreed as a way of resolving /managing things -with HR or senior manager. For him to do this suggests your relationship is pretty awful and if it's an agreed strategy I would want to get to the bottom of it , who knows, why is it needed. I would be looking for a new job or asking for a sideways move. Does the door being open say more about you or him and I'd address it accordingly.