I think my boss is scared of me - should I call it out?

[CaponeOnTax]

My boss is very able and experienced but not a massive people person so we’re a small team. We’re each other’s key colleague. What’s bothering me is my boss seems to dread being in a room one-to-one with me. I don’t know if it is weird or AIBU to think it is weird or what.

Around November my boss took me into a meeting room to give me what he thought was a dressing down (closed door). It didn’t go well, I had plenty to say from my side and HR ended up involved. After that, any meetings he instigated were either with the door open or in weird places round the office without doors, so in open plan. A marked change from previous years of working together.

We’re both mainly WFH so it doesn’t come up much and I thought we’d got through it. But again today we had a meeting and he left the door open. The implication seems to be that I am too unpredictable/toxic/not sure what really? to be in a room with. I find it hurtful, unprofessional and odd but … should I say something?

YABU - he can leave the door open if that’s how he prefers it, everyone’s entitled to feel at ease
YANBU - weird and unprofessional, you need to be able to work in a meeting room in your company’s office with the door shut.

Yes, this. I'd probably bring someone else in too.

Don't be ridiculous, this is common across many businesses and industry's - unless the conversation is completely private, confidential or NDA'd then in your bosses situation it's not inappropriate to have the door open at all, it's basic practise to not leave yourself open to any other claims and allows a clear exit route in case things become heated.

I don't know the situation that went to HR previously of course but I'd be doing your 1-2-1s in a booth or open office space too given the HR involvement and inevitably slightly strained relationship.

’call it out’ sounds aggressive from the get go.

Would you advise this if it was a woman who wanted the door open and a man wanted to close it? I doubt it.

I can't believe after the explanations on here OP still doesn't get why he may want to safeguard himself from further HR involvement.

You cried and HR got involved! Not saying you were wrong to do so, but he wants to protect himself and he's entitled to keep the damn door o
pen.

You got involved HR against him. Of course he'll never want to be in a room with you again.

Whether his "dressing down" of you was warranted or not, your choice of involving HR basically guaranteed he'll never trust you again. I don't blame any manager male or female for not wanting to be in a one on one closed door meeting with an employee who has involved HR against them.

Relatedly, while most women don't lie about harassment, some do and all it takes is an accusation with no proof or witnesses to destroy a man.

My husband is the same way. He manages a mixed team will absolutely not have a 1-1 with a female subordinate. To make it the same for men and women, he has all his 1-1 meetings in a coffee shop in the lobby of his office building.

I had a colleague/friend about 8 years back, a nice guy who managed a small team. He had an absolute lunatic female on his team that was failing in the job and she deflected and accused him of all kinds of inappropriate behavior. I've known the guy for a very long time and he's not that type (just married a few years prior, new dad who cared about nothing other than being a dad). When HR fired her (bc even they knew she was lying) she threatened to shoot up our office in a social media post.

#MeToo did a TON of good, but it did backfire a bit. I honestly would never blame a guy for refusing a 1-1 meeting with a female worker in a non public space.

What makes you think the manager got in trouble? It sounds to me that he went to HR for advice on how to handle a difficult employee.

What I would do is arrive into the meeting room behind him and close the door behind me.
Then he either has to leave the door closed (as he wasn't the last person through the door) or he has to get up, open the door and return to his seat.

Then you will know if he wants to keep the door open for some reason.

If you arrive into the room before him and he leaves the door open, you could get up, close the door and return to your seat. If something is said, then you can deal with the issue then.

I don't think you need to call them out on it (which is a confrontational phrase) but I do think that you can deal with the issue in a professional manner.

And I have never, ever heard of a policy to leave the door open a crack - that is madness. It’s just another way of ‘othering’ women.

It’s not madness. It’s what sensible men do to protect themselves from accusations of sexual misconduct. It’s been policy in some places I’ve worked for the last 30 years. Reading your posts I can completely see why he did it.

I suppose we don't get it because we don't cry at work.

Thanks for all the replies.

Office meetings 1:1 are part of the job and necessarily often involve discussing sensitive client matters or administrative people matters - a closed door is standard. As I noted, Senior Person in my office told me to shut the door. If this isn’t standard in your work environment, then this probably isn’t going to seem much of a dilemma to you.

In my OP, I really wasn’t sure if IWBU but airing this on this thread, and some of the more hysterical replies, have convinced me I am not. It’s not appropriate for meetings to be conducted door open for what we do and how we do it. Thanks to those posters who picked up this point. Either meetings are closed door or they can be Teams only. The door open thing is about him being uncomfortable or him wanting me to be uncomfortable - either way, it’s not productive, and there are alternatives.

I now know what to do next: keep the situation under review as I have done, and revert to Senior Person if it continues to happen over the next few weeks.

This thread is a reminder that as a woman, there are always people looking to shriek ‘troublemaker/waterworks/aggressive’ at a professional doing her job in a competitive environment. Posters picking up on me crying (on that occasion) or on me having ‘plenty to say’ when I stuck up for myself are all just part of the downward pressure on women.

He could be covering his arse
He could be trying to make you feel more comfortable
He could have been told to do it

Why 'call him out'? Rather than simply ask if he minds if you close the door in case people can hear you?

Sounds like you're gunning for him.

Your gender has nothing to do with it. You just sound difficult to be honest.

Whether his "dressing down" of you was warranted or not, your choice of involving HR basically guaranteed he'll never trust you again

<sigh> He got HR involved. Then HR rang me days later.

My husband is the same way. He manages a mixed team will absolutely not have a 1-1 with a female subordinate. To make it the same for men and women, he has all his 1-1 meetings in a coffee shop in the lobby of his office building.

@ElonsMusky You may want to note with him that refusing normal meetings on the basis of sex/gender of the attendees would be sexual discrimination. It’s another bias against women.

Your gender has nothing to do with it. You just sound difficult to be honest.

Difficult, how or why? I didn’t call the meeting, didn’t call HR, and so far I haven’t raised the weird door thing with my boss. I have held my own when challenged on here and in that meeting, though.

You sound like you are unaware of unconscious bias to be honest.

It's interesting how when people think the OP involved HR they use terms like "running to HR" and accuse you of breaking the trust.

But when it's clear that it was the boss who went to HR it's all "he understandably needs to protect himself."

But ElonMusky's DH treats both male and female employees exactly the same. She said "To make it the same for men and women, he has all his 1-1 meetings in a coffee shop in the lobby of his office building." That means both women and men have 1 to 1 meetings in the coffee shop. Where the fuck is the discrimination in that?

I would let it go OP. I think it is not worthy. If he wants to be petty, let him.
If the meeting is in an open area, no issue.
If in an office and I were the last one to enter, and I want the door closed, I would close it behind me. But if he is the last one to enter the room, I would leave it to him.
He may get tired of behaving different at some point, who cares!

Sounds as though he’s trying to protect himself, thinks you might make something up like an accusation etc. or HR have told him to do this because of what happened last time

MeToo did a TON of good, but it did backfire a bit. I honestly would never blame a guy for refusing a 1-1 meeting with a female worker in a non public space.

I would. It's shows a massive distrust of women as a group, and I would wonder if they are as equally willing to hire women as men if that's how they feel.

And I don't know about you but as a woman I know 50% of the population (approximately) is stronger than me and could, if they choose, hurt me. But I don't hide in a corner every time I'm alone with a male plumber or doctor or in a shop with only men. To be blunt I'd feel quite pathetic acting like that!

Agreed. Sorry my point on that wasn’t clear - it was about ‘subordinates’. If you can’t have 1:1 with ‘female subordinates’/women, how will you promote them? And what will be different on the day after?

And separately, that husband won’t work in a corporate environment. Banks, Insurers, Law Firms - er no you do not discuss confidential client matters in coffee shops. As noted, lots of work environments conduct meetings in meeting rooms.

Regarding the difficult comment, I have to say you sound a bit "difficult" to me to as you do not seem to want to accept the door left as he wants it, even talking to a senior colleague about it. I think you are giving it too much importance and too much of your time. Just let it go?

Your teams calls will be recorded so he won't need anyone note taking I would imagine

Op didn’t get HR involved, her boss notified them.

I’m shocked that your husband holds all 1-1 meetings in a coffee shop. How on earth can he provide delicate feedback or expect his team to confide in him about any issues they are experiencing in a public place? It may be unfair, but I tend to think that any man who is so concerned about being accused of sexual harassment that they will not be alone with a woman in the workplace has something on his conscience. Either that or he’s using it as an excuse to be a piss poor manager that can’t be bothered to adequately develop and support his team.

Agreed there is no discrimination. Even though the reason for this could be discriminatory if he discloses it (which would be stupid). But any manager that doesn’t allow those on their team space and privacy to discuss their strengths and weaknesses, objectives, areas of improvement or issues is doing them a huge disservice. And all because they are worried that one of their female colleagues will lie and say they were sexually harassed just for the hell of it.

I’d be embarrassed if one of my colleagues was this pathetic.

Teams calls are only recorded if you record them, they aren't automatically recorded, you have to inform people if you are recording them. OP you are definitely nbu, you sound like a confident, capable person. This thread scares me somewhat with the undertone of sexist comment, women being incapable or threatening in some way 😱 Especially because this site is called mums net and therefore I would assume mainly women? Reasonably new here so not sure of the make up of members. However OP @CaponeOnTax I would definitely have to ask, "why do you always leave the door open?" So yes, call him out.