I think my boss is scared of me - should I call it out?

[CaponeOnTax]

My boss is very able and experienced but not a massive people person so we’re a small team. We’re each other’s key colleague. What’s bothering me is my boss seems to dread being in a room one-to-one with me. I don’t know if it is weird or AIBU to think it is weird or what.

Around November my boss took me into a meeting room to give me what he thought was a dressing down (closed door). It didn’t go well, I had plenty to say from my side and HR ended up involved. After that, any meetings he instigated were either with the door open or in weird places round the office without doors, so in open plan. A marked change from previous years of working together.

We’re both mainly WFH so it doesn’t come up much and I thought we’d got through it. But again today we had a meeting and he left the door open. The implication seems to be that I am too unpredictable/toxic/not sure what really? to be in a room with. I find it hurtful, unprofessional and odd but … should I say something?

YABU - he can leave the door open if that’s how he prefers it, everyone’s entitled to feel at ease
YANBU - weird and unprofessional, you need to be able to work in a meeting room in your company’s office with the door shut.

I had to read all your posts before feeling I understood what you were on about, so you did a great job of generating traffic but I was pretty irritated by the time I scrolled back up to change my vote to YANBU.

Making a thing or "calling him out" about his leaving the door open would come over as petty and/or looking for trouble. Why don't you take HR's advice and just close the door next time?

You weren’t sure if you were being unreasonable and yet somehow this thread has convinced you that you are not? How very odd when all but a handful of posters have said how difficult and unreasonable you sound plus 91% of the vote.

The coffee shop meeting thing upthread is just bizarre. It's very obvious that the DH does not work in the kind of corporate environment where meetings can relate to confidential work.

Am I right in thinking that your boss went to HR after the meeting where you cried and now all in person meetings involve an open door? You mentioned that you don't normally cry at work, usually quite resilient and that you hadn't mentioned your family problems to him. Is it possible that after that meeting he was puzzled and concerned by your reaction and, as you mentioned he isn't much of a people person, went to HR for some advice and they've suggested this? If they spoke to you afterwards did they not mention this?

It sounds like you think he is just playing games to put you in your place as a woman, the open door seems like an unusual way to do this, I can't see how it works. I suppose you could check with HR if this is something they have advised him.

What became obvious was that a lot of people didn’t really get the circumstances anyway. Only a handful of posters a) work in a similar environment with confidential meetings regularly and b) were able to respond without sexist tropes.

I disregarded anyone who used phrases like saying I was ‘difficult’
or ‘running to HR’ or ‘troublemaker’ or that my Boss needed ‘protecting’ because - and I really made this clear - I’ve done nothing at all but get through a robust meeting. These responses are imposed by posters’ own aggression or beliefs, often just an innate sexism that experienced professional women are affected by all the time. There were several responses that insisted that this was nothing to do with being a woman.

Ironically, that thing about treating women as though they are people you can only meet in coffee shops or in meeting rooms with the door open totally sums up the problem with the responses. Loads of posters think exactly that way, despite being women. Women are inherently unstable - men must protect themselves.

Plus at least 50% of the YABU voters were always going to vote that way because a sizeable bit of MN demographic don’t like anyone who uses the phrase ‘call out’ and will hate-click on that title. I worded my OP fairly to my Boss as well. (Like I say, been on MN a long time).

Lots of the posts were great, though, and I’m grateful to everyone who replies.

I'd do the same, if I were him. He's protecting himself.

This thread has been enlightening, and not in a good way!

The OP's first post was light on details so many posters filled in the blanks in their minds. It's depressing to see how they filled in the blanks with sexist assumptions. The amount of people who assumed the OP went "running to HR" and that she was "difficult" for not immediately agreeing with her boss's criticisms despite having no idea about what they were discussing in the meeting is actually shocking to me. We had absolutely no idea what was said in the meeting, only that the OP and her boss had some kind of bust up and all these people were so quick to assume she was "difficult" and in the wrong. Absolute madness.

@ElonsMusky you think it's "sexist" for a man to cover his ass.

In your DH's case, yes think it's sexist to view all women as so untrustworthy or dangerous that he refuses to be alone with them. Men are far more dangerous to women than the other way around yet I don't view all men like violent predators because that would be ridiculous and I've never met a woman who does. Your DH is obviously sexist and, without being too harsh, a bit of a coward. Surely he has heard of cases when men have done bad things? If so he should view all men as potentially violent criminals if he's to be consistent.

To answer your question- of courses if my DH were to be on the receiving end of a false accusation that would be devastating, but neither of us would suddenly start avoiding being alone with all women because, as with the reverse situation, that would be ridiculous. And if he were to start acting like that it would be a trauma response NOT a rational reaction.

This. Sorry OP but you are absolutely only hearing what you want to hear and what you came on here to try to validate to yourself. You’ve ignored every single comment (btw the overwhelming majority) that say your boss was protecting himself by leaving the door open-which is blatant to me! You are being v unreasonable in questioning why someone would want to keep the door open in a 1:1 meeting especially after a recent acrimonious meeting with you. I’m a feminist through and through but there’s no sexism in his behaviour whatsoever. Of course you should stand up for yourself and call out any bullying behaviour but not him leaving the door open or possibly feeling uncomfortable in closing the door in a 1:1 with you is not something that needs to be questioned. I wonder if it’s you trying to intimidate him reading between the lines.

She said her husband has all his meetings like that, men included, try reading before frothing moronically with incorrect information.

@Mookie81 I read it correctly and am fully aware of that. My post was about his attitudes and rationale. His reasoning for having meetings in public is sexist but by treating both men and women the same he's ensured his actions aren't discriminatory. It's not that complicated.

Try engaging your brain before frothing moronically ;)

He has every right to choose whether he leaves the door to his office open or not. It’s not up to you to ask. If the genders were reversed and a male employee was “ calling out” his female boss for leaving the door open how would that sound?
I've been in a similar situation when a female senior colleague complained about me - and lied and misrepresented information to Hr - I only ever spoke with her afterwards in open spaces or with door open so I could slide out to an area with witnesses if there was any issue.
Think ( honestly) about your role in this

I wonder if it’s you trying to intimidate him reading between the lines.

Perhaps don’t read between the lines @Mamma2017 - you can just read my posts where I explain 1) closed door is standard 2) I have done nothing.

You insist that you are a ‘feminist’ yet again you have replaced my action of doing nothing for four months and not raising any issues, with ‘trying to intimidate’. What leads you to that? Is it that you just want to think badly of a professional woman considering standing up for herself?

Not at all. I read your post & the entire thread carefully and this is the impression I got. So did a LOT of others according to the responses, which you chose to edit out of your reality because you don’t agree with them. What’s the point in asking a forum their opinions if you’re going to dismiss any you don’t agree with?

Can say for sure obviously but I would be very surprised if he bothers himself with petty mind games of this sort.

*can’t

What’s the point in asking a forum their opinions if you’re going to dismiss any you don’t agree with?

Again, if you’d read the thread you’d see that I didn’t dismiss the posts I disagree with. I dismissed those posts - like yours - that ‘read between the lines’ negative tropes about a woman into the scenario.

You tell me I am trying to intimidate my boss - but the absolute facts of every post I’ve made are 1) I haven’t taken any action and 2) in considering my next steps I am trying to be fair to any concerns my Boss may have (see OP ‘YABU’) for a genuine discussion.

I am trying to be fair to any concerns my Boss may have

Clearly you’re not or you wouldn’t be making a fuss about something so trivial in the great scheme of things as leaving a door open.

Just in case you disregarded my reply 🙄 I'll ask again: Why don't you take HR's advice and just close the door next time?

There were several responses that insisted that this was nothing to do with being a woman.

Because it really isn't. I am a professional woman who managed many professional women. I have left the door open when I had to manage women who behaved like you

I have left the door open when I had to manage women who behaved like you

Behaved ‘like me’ how exactly? What is this behaviour that matches all these other women you have left the door open with@thehorsehasnowbolted ? You are imagining an action that I haven’t taken because of your prejudice. Again, we’re up against assumed behaviour of difficult/unstable women

And, no, I don’t believe you operated in an environment in which is was usual and frequent to have closed door meetings and then you started having open door meetings with particular women. That sounds odd to say the least.

Posters responding ‘I am a feminist and I think X’ and then adding in something clearly prejudicial need to get over to the Feminist boards.

I don't think anyone is imagining anything OP, we can all read your posts here and you've spelled it out for us.
.
You've been told this isn't unusual behaviour when handling someone who may be challenging and who has previously reported a manager to HR so why won't you listen? Perhaps that's your first port of call as I'm sure there are people much more experienced with these situations who have contributed to the thread who you're simply choosing to ignore. Feminism is an absolute red herring to this argument and creating strawmen doesn't help things at all.

<Sighs> It was my boss who reported the conversation to HR. My boss. Not me.

Now, you are asking me why I won’t listen. Why I specifically won’t listen to you @Jimboscott0115 and posters like you is because you didn’t read the thread - instead you added a trope about a woman complaining to HR. I didn’t complain to HR. You then try to patronise me with the ‘much more experienced’ people I should be listening to. I am experienced. And I recognise prejudice.

🤣 I'm sorry but there was no trope anywhere about your sex or gender, this was about a manager responding reasonably to a situation which is fairly common and has no bearing on whatever the sex's of those involved is.

You may not want to acknowledge it, but you really do sound hard work to manage if this thread is a reflection of your approach in real life.

Well after this comment I am 100% confident that he's making the right decision to keep the door open - I'd be having a note taker for every meeting too if I were him.