Page 15 | People on good wages saying they are struggling

ChopSuey2 · 2023-02-14T15:06:21+00:00

Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by people on good wages saying they are struggling? I am not talking about people who have good wages but are paying off large debts or whose childcare leaves them broke, but people who say they can't afford to live on a certain amount but actually have a decent or even lots of money left after essentials. Equally, people whose essentials (food shopping and heating particularly) are ludicrously high (not including those with high costs related to disability). I really feel like people need to read the room. People are genuinely struggling and saying you can't afford to live on a good wage is insensitive. I'm not sure if it's relevant but I would consider myself to be on a good wage (not a higher tax payer and in London). YABU - people can say they can't afford to live on a good wage because it's all relative YANBU - people need to think about what being unable to afford things really means

Newnamenewme23 · 19/02/2023 08:15

Ceilingplaits · 19/02/2023 00:04

Bit confused by the idea that people in their 40s were so easily able to buy houses.
I'm still friends with my groups of friends from school and university, aged 48-51, and the only ones who own their homes had huge deposits from parents or were given their houses by parents or through inheritance. None could have afforded one otherwise. Nearly all have postgraduate degrees from good universities. Same with families I know locally. Nearly all are renting.

I did it as well.

saved 5k while at uni, got max loans plus had jobs.

bought after graduating, 40k flat in a northern town, while I did my postgrad. Rented the spare room, which paid the mortgage.

the only people I know who struggled to get on the housing ladder were those who preferred to rent in their early career, as a mortgage “tied them down”. Or those who refused to contemplate anything less than a 3 bed house with garden.

TrudyProud · 19/02/2023 08:17

@Ceilingplaits I'm only in my 30s but I definitely have older colleagues and friends in london that like @MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud had 100% mortgages to fund their first homes. One friend in particular told me she received a 120% mortgage when buying her 2bed flat in Hampstead for £300k with a friend before some time in the 2000s (I was in secondary school).

All I know is had I had been born even just a decade sooner. Making all the same education and career decisions I made I'd definitely have a bigger house, nicer car and live more centrally with a lower mortgage than I do now.

PugInTheHouse · 19/02/2023 08:29

BarbaraofSeville · 19/02/2023 06:17

@PugInTheHouse we were FTBs in the mid 1990s. In 2002 those houses were probably worth £40-50k.

But the price difference is probably much larger now, ours likely around £120-150k.

I bet your £90k 2 bed from 2002 has risen more than 3 times in value now?

About £240k for 2 bed, £320ish for 3 bed mid terrace.

My XH was from the Midlands and it was £125k for a 4 bed detached in 2002 and about the same for a 3 bed terrace where I live.

PugInTheHouse · 19/02/2023 08:38

BarbaraofSeville · 19/02/2023 06:13

It would be an interesting comparison to look the disposable income of single parents of two preschoolers after rent and childcare costs.

The £80k earner will get no help at all and pay 40% tax plus likely student loan repayments and possibly significant childcare costs.

Lower earners will get CB and UC to help with rent and childcare.

The gap in disposable income is likely to be far less than £80k vs £30k suggests.

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Years back (mid 00s) when my DS1 was small DH was on just under £30k. His cousin had a young child also, she worked the minimum she could for benefits and was better off than us with her benefits, she was a single parent so its not a question of whethershe should or shouldn't get it, just an observation really. We were very close so knew what she got. I can definitely believe that the gap is not that massive TBH when you are talking disposable income.

I didn't work at that point as it made such a small difference in full time childcare before preschool age (and I had a job I could take a career break in and go back into my role), if we had our kids now I would have had to go back, no doubt.

BigMandysBookClub · 19/02/2023 09:31

IsItBedtimeYetNope · 14/02/2023 15:15

YABU. Everyone is getting robbed atm. Instead of infighting over pennies on the grand scheme of things, we need to all stick together and lambast the real culprits.

Well said! I always say the same on these threads. Same with 'benefit scroungers' - do you think a person on benefits is sucking the system dry, or the person being awarded lots of money to fulfil a contract they have no inention of delivering well, or at all! There is so much wastage in government.

Wages in real terms have been decreasing for a long time, well before the cost of living crisis. People have been substituting with cheap credit instead. Nothing has been done about it and people make lots of money off trading debt (until there is a liquidity crisis). I don't think it's necessarily been by design, just the crisis has been kicked into the long grass and now we are all feeling the brunt of it, instead of just people at the bottom.

I've always never been that well off. I'm OK now because partner and I put the hours in, but it's still tight. We've put two kids through nursery, which halts any material progress in your life and to an extent stalls your career a bit. Different governments don't change life a great deal for those at the bottom, at least they haven't in my 40 odd years. I think we need a different, fairer system, but not one like CBDC.

Fixed · 19/02/2023 10:49

pd339 · 19/02/2023 07:48

This "read the room" stuff that everyone trots out on here these days is tripe.

Just curious as to why you think its tripe? You're not aware of who you're saying things to and how it can come across no?

Ceilingplaits · 20/02/2023 00:05

MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud · 19/02/2023 00:11

@Ceilingplaits I'm 42 and got a 100% mortgage. We didn't have a pot to piss in, but we were able to buy a house. It was very easy for us.

Lucky you!

Ceilingplaits · 20/02/2023 00:11

TrudyProud · 19/02/2023 08:17

@Ceilingplaits I'm only in my 30s but I definitely have older colleagues and friends in london that like @MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud had 100% mortgages to fund their first homes. One friend in particular told me she received a 120% mortgage when buying her 2bed flat in Hampstead for £300k with a friend before some time in the 2000s (I was in secondary school).

All I know is had I had been born even just a decade sooner. Making all the same education and career decisions I made I'd definitely have a bigger house, nicer car and live more centrally with a lower mortgage than I do now.

We're all born n bred Londoners and never been able to buy a home. No one I know locally does, parents (pensioners) all renting too.

MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud · 20/02/2023 00:20

@Ceilingplaits I know I'm lucky. I was stating that back in 2005, 100% mortgages existed, therefore it was easier for us to buy a house. If we hadn't been able to get a 100% mortgage we would've struggled, because we had no savings, no inheritance and our parents were unable to help us. Well, one of mine was dead - again, no inheritance. It doesn't correlate to your statement about it not being easier for people in their 40s.

MakingTheVeganYorkshirePud · 20/02/2023 00:36

@Ceilingplaits that should read My experience doesn't correlate with your statement about it not being easier for people in their 40s. It was easy for us, much more so than a 24 year old nowadays (unless they have an inheritance or wealthy parents). I'm in the North btw, and so I'm sure our experiences are very different.

Reclaimtheoutdoors · 20/02/2023 01:25

EezyOozy · 14/02/2023 16:01

Yabu!

we are the “squeezed middle” and the screws are turning more and more… struggling to buy food and pay for car repairs now! No holiday this year, not even a UK one. We seem to have less disposable income than friends who work very p/t and can access UC and whole host of other support at the moment.

I’ve noticed this. Not necessarily judging but I’ve seen how some people and their partners both choose to work part time (children all in secondary school/not disabled ) and get significant benefits for their household .

That’s their choice but If anything I’m a bit less sympathetic to the ones like that, who could work full time but choose not to, saying their skint, than those who are slightly higher earners but are working flat out.

Willyoujustbequiet · 20/02/2023 02:00

Ceilingplaits · 19/02/2023 00:04

Bit confused by the idea that people in their 40s were so easily able to buy houses.
I'm still friends with my groups of friends from school and university, aged 48-51, and the only ones who own their homes had huge deposits from parents or were given their houses by parents or through inheritance. None could have afforded one otherwise. Nearly all have postgraduate degrees from good universities. Same with families I know locally. Nearly all are renting.

I find that really surprising.

I'm the same age group and I bought easily in my 20's with no inheritance or help from parents, as did everyone we know.

Homes were only £30k average in the 90s in my area so it was pretty easy. I feel sorry for first time buyers now. It was far easier for us.

TrudyProud · 20/02/2023 03:28

@Ceilingplaits that is surprising. The people I am referring to are all professionals- they are accountants, barristers (due to the funding process she freely admits she wouldn't be able to afford to buy in the same area today) etc.

Don't get me wrong I have family members (also born and bred Londoners) who even though they are in their 50s never afforded to buy . However they are the minority as most (
also born and bred Londoners) eventually bought their council houses for pennies - this doesn't happen now. Can't even get a council house talk less buy it!

Boisey · 20/02/2023 05:53

I am in a group connected with my hobby. I notice that those in their late 20s in similar professions to mine live in areas and are buying properties in areas that those with half my income would have lived in at a similar age (I’m 51). The living standards that the young can afford have plummeted. The only thing that sets people apart is inherited wealth. It has become more and more important, which is not a good thing.

Xenia · 20/02/2023 12:09

It is quite hard to generalise because house prices differ in all kinds of areas. We are in outer London and sold our last house at a big loss in the 1990s property crash in about 1996. It was a very very difficult time and before that had been paying up to 17% mortgage interest (and had borrowed 4x my salary on a deferred interest mortgage - not only was it interest only but some of the internet was rolled up (not paid) and added to the loan - very very risky business even then but only way we could afford that previous house). We both worked full time even when my 1980s babies were two weeks (yes weeks not months) old.

lieselotte · 20/02/2023 12:15

I am 50 and bought my first flat in London in the late 90s. It cost £45K!

The last time I looked it up on rightmove it had sold for £260K!

ChungusBoi · 20/02/2023 12:15

My niece is on a good wage and struggling. Saved like crazy and lived frugally after uni to buy her own flat. She doesn’t complain, but with mortgage, bills, petrol and food simultaneously going up, she no longer has any money spare at the end of the month and has economised as much as possible to avoid getting into debt.

lieselotte · 20/02/2023 12:16

The only thing that sets people apart is inherited wealth. It has become more and more important, which is not a good thing

I agree, IHT is very good at (a) discouraging hoarding of wealth and (b) redistributing hoarded wealth. However, tax should be spent wisely and there's no evidence the current government is doing so.

Thesharkradar · 20/02/2023 12:29

lieselotte · 20/02/2023 12:16

The only thing that sets people apart is inherited wealth. It has become more and more important, which is not a good thing

I agree, IHT is very good at (a) discouraging hoarding of wealth and (b) redistributing hoarded wealth. However, tax should be spent wisely and there's no evidence the current government is doing so.

Agreed, their profligacy with our hard-earned money shows the disregard and contempt with which they view you us peasants, aka the normal people who do the real work that makes those c*nts rich

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 20/02/2023 12:35

I have voted for tax raising parties before and wouldn't mind doing so again as I have no objection to paying in more. But I don't trust the current shower as far as I could throw them, and certainly not to actually use the money properly rather than dreaming up some bullshit scheme to enrich their mates.