People on good wages saying they are struggling

[ChopSuey2]

Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by people on good wages saying they are struggling?

I am not talking about people who have good wages but are paying off large debts or whose childcare leaves them broke, but people who say they can't afford to live on a certain amount but actually have a decent or even lots of money left after essentials. Equally, people whose essentials (food shopping and heating particularly) are ludicrously high (not including those with high costs related to disability).

I really feel like people need to read the room. People are genuinely struggling and saying you can't afford to live on a good wage is insensitive.

I'm not sure if it's relevant but I would consider myself to be on a good wage (not a higher tax payer and in London).

YABU - people can say they can't afford to live on a good wage because it's all relative
YANBU - people need to think about what being unable to afford things really means

I think the culture for a long time was to get a mortgage at the top of your means. That did work when peoples wages were going up and COL wasn’t. Eventually you would reduce your payments and your wages would rise.

When we got our mortgage we couldn’t borrow that much, we had to have a decent deposit and permanent jobs etc. A few years later it went nuts and you could borrow enormous amounts. That became the norm, everyone expected to get big houses.

I know people talk about old bangers here but everyone I know drives nice cars. Often surprisingly nice considering what they do for a job.

people don’t give themselves wriggle room. They complain about unexpected bills or they can’t afford holidays etc. I think people’s expectations need to be reduced a bit although I don’t know how you do that.

I have friends who’ve bought the biggest house they could, nice cars, get gusto etc delivered, go to nice salons, have expensive skincare routines, go for nice weekends etc. Moan non stop about being skint. They don’t think they live beyond their means, they all think that’s the normal level of living now.

He was hesitant in paying his half (£150) for my 30th birthday night away - I am paying my own

This is really stingy behaviour for his GF's birthday!

We have only been together since December so I felt a bit rude asking. I like going away etc rather than gifts and he has been made aware of it. I actually looked up where to go and paid both of our deposits as well until he paid me back a week later.

He's very clear with splitting bills etc or taking turns. I've had to decline invitations for dinner out etc recently, as I just can't afford it. I've made him aware that our incomes vary dramatically with me earning significantly less, with a child and a large rottweiler to look after.

I think that's the whole point why you're better off. You could possibly afford bigger mortgage or better car, but you considered what if something happens- are we able to absorb increased cost easily? Very wise attitude.

I get it's annoying when someone well off complains about the cost if living. But if their 2k mortgage has jumped to 2.7k thanks to Truss & co and they are paying £20 a day to keep their house at 17 degrees that's still a huge amount of money to find overnight and it makes sense they are angry.

@RumandSpinach But if you earn a lot of money you need to allow flex for unexpected things happening. It is terrible money management to spend as if things will always be the same.

So my neighbour who has 4 kids and works nights in a minimum wage job. Is she allowed to moan? It was her lifestyle choice to have 4 kids so it doesn't matter if she's struggling she's still not allowed to complain?

What about my DM on a state pension. She chose not to work until my DF died. She didn't pay into a private pension. Is she allowed to complain because her circumstance are due to the lifestyle choices she has made and therefore she should just put up and shut up?

For what's it's worth I wouldn't begrudge either of these complaining. I have got a buffer and I can afford the extra. The choices and opportunities are gone. I can't afford to be warm though. To heat the house when it's cold would be beyond affordability. Forgive my lack of psychic powers ten years ago when it cost £150 to fuel my house with the most it being as £250 until last year. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that we have no clue that this would rise to over £1000 a month if we wanted the heating on.

It is a normal level of living for someone on a decent income, I want to enjoy my money not save it all and die with it. Attitudes have a largely changed we invest not save, so our money grows and we an asset we could sell (property, stocks, size hussle etc). Yes we might twist we are skint as we've just bought something we saved the capital for but that's normal. I also twist when the tax bill comes in and I see how much we give away!

Everyone can complain about their lives, even if there are people worse off. I won't stop complaining that my legs hurt after a run just because there are people in the world with no legs. It's all relative, and everyone's struggles are still struggles

For some we are not talking just some flex, this is pretty large sums we're talking about plus potential changes in circumstances, many of these changes happened very quickly due to covid. It is narrow minded to not be able to understand this IMO.

It is ok to be disappointed or upset about going from having well paid jobs and a nice life to having to watch every penny or struggling to pay certain bills this month. Doesn't mean most people aren't still understanding that they are fortunate and that the difference for others is choosing to heat the house or put food on the table. Let's face it, no one in the UK should be living like that!!

Yes we might twist we are skint as we've just bought something we saved the capital for but that's normal.

Actually, I don't see it as 'normal' to claim to be skint when you are demonstrably not. People who do that really don't come across well.

My friendship group includes people in a variety of financial positions, and it would be grossly insensitive to complain about being "skint" because I've just bought a new kitchen or gone on yet another holiday.

Yes that would be really insensitive and thoughtless. I think it's just a word people use though, there are things we have said we can't afford as may be 'skint' that week/month or whatever, but to complain in RL would be insensitive if you are not 100% sure of the audience.

I think all this thread is showing is that everyone thinks everyone else has it better and that their own choices are justified but everyone else's aren't!

Not that poster but on a similar wage so £4.2k ish per month after tax and NI, less with a student loan payment. £2.5k childcare to be able to work. £1.3k mortgage on a basic house (cheaper than rent would be). Then you've got the other bills like electric, WiFi, fuel, just to be able to work and earn that wage and even before the ones to live it's tight. Thankfully we have saved to be able to afford the childcare so will spend some of the rainy day savings but if I didn't have savings built up previously I wouldn't be able to afford food. I can well believe someone on a similar wage could be really struggling.

I do sometimes find myself getting sucked into the "pfff, that's not being hard up, try [X, Y, Z] that I had to do when we were made redundant, couldn't meet our mortgage payments and had our house repossessed" mindset. But I resent it when I do start thinking like that and try to give myself a kick up the arse. We should all be able to afford housing, heating and food as a basic right. If we work, our wages should pay for those things at an absolute minimum plus some of life's pleasures too. If we are unable to work then as a civilised society we should provide those things through a well-funded welfare state.

We all deserve to be able to afford to live, not merely exist.

£30k a year on childcare???? Is this normal? Wow thankfully mine are out of childcare now but jeez that's insane.

Yep for 2 kids. And that's not even London prices which is where most of the higher earners are.

This 100%

I don't think those on £20ishk a year shouldn't be able to afford the basics (not scraping by, I mean the basics to have a reasonable standard of living) and I resent the fact the some people think that no one should actually earn good money and have a nice life. People earning £30-35k which is a good salary shouldn't be struggling to heat their homes, this could easily be the case even with both people in the house earning this. Not everyone can live in a bedsit or move up North.

I just wish people could be a bit more understanding of different situations. Of course there are people who are loaded and are moaning they can only have 4 holidays this year instead of 5 but they are rare really, most people are having their own issues whether financial or personal, and there is always someone worse off of course but it shouldn't belittle someone else's feelings or situation.

So if someone on 85k is “struggling”, how do you think someone on 30 or 40k is doing?

I was on 30k when I had kids.

there are things you can do do to get you through the childcare years without “struggling” on 85k.

first thing we did was ask to pay interest only on the mortgage for the 3/5 years which reduced it down from £1300 to 300, and made a massive dent in childcare bill.

also I had saved a pretty fair whack which also covered a years childcare. Plus interest free credit cards and there’s no need to struggle.

yes bills are expensive when you’re paying childcare but it’s a temporary cost.

I am currently paying off 10k for kids braces which is a cost I don’t need (thanks to a 5 year nhs wait list round here).

yes it was a choice but imo an unavoidable one. Both kids were getting very conscious and their dental health was deteriorating as well.

i m managing by a series of 0% credit cards so I can pay it off at an affordable rate.

If you have an income of 85k you have the luxury of access to credit and being able to manage your debt. If you’re on NMW that’s less of an option.

I was on 30k when I had kids.

How did you pay 2.5k in childcare?

first thing we did was ask to pay interest only on the mortgage for the 3/5 years which reduced it down from £1300 to 300, and made a massive dent in childcare bill.

interest rates aren't that low now though...

@Newnamenewme23 you can’t just switch to interest only mortgage now

I have always been a complete optimist so pushed the the utter extent of what we can afford even using children's savings, every last penny, to get this house for example. It has worked so far. However I have never said times are harder for me than other who are worse off and indeed even UK benefits claimants live like Kings compared to much of the poverty abroad. It is all relative.

Someone on 85k a year is paying over 26k in tax. The daily take-home is £224.
Someone on 30k a year is paying around 7k in tax. The daily take-home is £107.

I actually feel salaries are shocking at all levels.

More than double a day's pay is an enormous difference