People on good wages saying they are struggling

[ChopSuey2]

Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by people on good wages saying they are struggling?

I am not talking about people who have good wages but are paying off large debts or whose childcare leaves them broke, but people who say they can't afford to live on a certain amount but actually have a decent or even lots of money left after essentials. Equally, people whose essentials (food shopping and heating particularly) are ludicrously high (not including those with high costs related to disability).

I really feel like people need to read the room. People are genuinely struggling and saying you can't afford to live on a good wage is insensitive.

I'm not sure if it's relevant but I would consider myself to be on a good wage (not a higher tax payer and in London).

YABU - people can say they can't afford to live on a good wage because it's all relative
YANBU - people need to think about what being unable to afford things really means

Like what?

And for how much?

So all those higher earners don't have anything at all they could sell? Anything? Really?

I'm sure they could find something.

I dn't have much to sell but I have an old car (diesel) but people are right it could be sold, not for much but it could be. I have a TV which is abohut 10 years old - that could be sold. I have 3 or 4 spare landline telephones (no jewellery at all). Books but they wouldn't go for much. I hae an old bike (20 years). I am just not very into things so although earn a reasonable amount do not have anything particularly expensive to sell other than normal sort of household items - a microwave etc

Then people in that situation should have plenty of savings to tide them over then.

I have some old clothes and toys. Not really going to be life changing amounts though. Probably a few thousand though but we are already doing this to ensure we have some emergency money as if our boiler went we have no spare cash to pay for it.

Things I could do is give notice for next term for DS2 (who has additional needs) private school just as he goes into Y11. Sell our car which would get us maybe £4k (but i need it for work). Downsize our house which would obv mean paying all the fees involved so doubt we'd save much and still find somewhere to house us all. I don't feel these are feasible options right now.

Lots of the money we have spent over the years when we had more spare has been on school fees and holidays. Not bought a brand new car since I was 18 when they used to do those amazing deals for £200 a month incl insurance. We don't have lots of material things to sell really.

Hindsight is a great things and there are many things I would have done differently over the years to avoid being in this situation now. Don't get me wrong we are fine if things stay roughly as they are for the next 2 years but I don't think that it is impossible for higher earners to be struggling. I guess we are on the lower end of the people being talked about really though.

Genuine question.

why did you commit to a “huge mortgage” in an expensive area that would be unsustainable if circumstances change? Presumably if the house upkeep is so significant as well it must be a reasonable size.

especially if you have no savings to tide you over should they do so.

My dad died suddenly leaving my mum in the shit completely. So everything in our household is based on being affordable if one of us died.

so we have a relatively small mortgage. Could have afforded more but chose not to so not to be left with a huge mortgage should one of us lose a job or worse.

I have a few people in mind (people I know in real life) but also people on forums and social media. "We have no money. We can't afford to go out for a meal" threads and when people ask for expenses to try suggest ways they could cut down they either say after essentials we've only got £1000+ or say they spend £100s on beauty/hair/clothes, £200/week on the food shop, have the heating on 21 all day long etc. When it's suggested perhaps savings could be made in those areas they don't even consider it, just carry on saying how little money they have. All the while, people are saying "here's how I manage my budget which is several thousand a month less than yours" and it's like they can't even see how they sound saying they have no money for a meal out when really what they mean is they have prioritised other things.

It's easy to think this way but people can use credit for various reasons.

-As a stop gap during job loss or illness.
-To cover massive unexpected expenses like a car being written off or a roof leaking
-To purchase a safe car to commute long distances or carry kids.

Or in my case, to buy a flat quicker than expected because my landlord (dad) was threatening to kick me out unless I increased my rent to £1k a month, for comparison I now pay £870 as mortgage. I had to buy everything from scratch and on finance otherwise i'd have had to save up for ages to get even basic things like a special mattress for my back pain and a microwave.

I was then made redundant 5 months after my purchase and could have gotten even deeper into debt. Luckily my redundancy payout tided me over till my new job, but i've only just this month been able to pay off that lingering debt, and from next month will have a rolling balance I can responsibly pay down each month till I don't need it anymore.

By your logic, then anyone struggling should just sell their belongings. On benefits and have a TV, well you should just sell it? Or are you they allowed to keep higher value items because they're more worthy of struggling?

As a relatively high earner the only thing of any real value I have (other than house and car) is my engagement ring (circa 1.5k). That won't even cover my fuel bill for 2 months. Then what? What do I sell next?

Yes, your last sentence hits the nail on the head. People have finite resources and prioritise. I have enough money to do the things that matter to me (buy nice food, save for new car, spend weekends away with my best friends and family) but not enough money to also be able to, say, attend an expensive hen party for a friend I haven’t seen in a while.

So if I reply “I haven’t got the money” I don't mean I haven’t got ANY money, I mean I haven’t got enough money to do everything and your event didn't make the cut sorry. Saying it like that would be a bit rude though wouldn’t it?

It's unreasonable to expect people to prioritise their money on the things you think they should.

I live in a cheap area and people apparently don't want more downsizers with their fatter pockets to flood in and push up the local house prices, fight for the best schools, 'show off' in front of those who have less, etc. It's a local talking point at the moment, alongside people using the town to enter the housing market.

It's an interesting conversation to be enticed into, because our household income is very high (but people won't know that unless they looked closely, so I hear all sorts). On one hand, I'd like to say that no one should dictate what choices people make about where they live. But I can empathise with the extra challenges presented to people who have less money and less choice. I wince a little at people paying 2k+ a month for their mortgages, but if more of them struggle to meet those payments, then the knock on effects do inevitably start affecting the poorest it would seem. So back to square one.

YANBU people should live within their means. Too many people spend all their money on frivolities, buy the most expensive house they can possibly afford, splurge on expensive holidays, the latest phones, TVs, fancy cars etc. Then when things go wrong they complain about it "not being fair" that they can't afford to pay for these things anymore.

I agree with you OP. I'm a single parent with 2 kids living on part-time wages. I have friends who are DINKs (double income, no kids) who moan constantly about the CoL. Agree you need to consider who you're moaning to. There are many people who could quite easily reduce their outgoings if they were genuinely worried about the CoL and some who are already living on the bare bones with no wiggle room at all and we don't really need to hear how hard it is to have to cut back to 3 holidays a year instead of 4. It grates.

This is where the difference shows though, isn't it.

The most expensive car I've ever bought was 1500 quid. If I was skint I'd sell my 4k car and get a banger runaround. But that's what I'm used to, taking my chances on whether it's going to get me to work from one week to the next. Having a newer, guaranteed to run and run nicely car, is a privilege, as is having a banger is considered a privilege to someone that has to walk everywhere.

But the thing is it doesn't go that far any more. We're a single income household on more than that and after childcare to work full time and mortgage on a basic ex council house there's less than a grand a month to cover food for a while family, fuel to get to and from work, all bills, savings, and anything nice to have like holidays and Christmas. The higher rate tax, childcare, and high income child benefit payback really stuff you at that sort of income if you have young kids, especially if you're a single parent. Meanwhile if you're on a much lower wage you can qualify for things like council houses and benefits, pay less tax, and may get subsidised childcare and council tax. In some cases there's nowhere near the difference you'd expect from the headline figures.

Yes I understand that. The car is 10 years old, I am just guessing it's about £4k now. Maybe less, its not in great condition really now and is a diesel so definitely not kept a lot of value. We have to do long journeys for my sons work so an old banger would not suffice unfortunately as safety is obviously really important when driving lots of miles. I don't think a banger is a privilege compared to walking, often an old banger is a necessity to get to work etc.

In reality the 2.5k you would get would only cover a few bills, for some with bigger houses that is not many months additional mortgage with the rates so high, and in some old homes just about covers the years additional gas/elec. All short term fixes but if we needed to we would do whatever we need to.

It's difficult though as like you state there are always people worse off. I am certainly not complaining about our position, the reason we have a car that is worth £4k now is because we were able to buy a reasonable car 9 years ago. Now we are not as well off however we know that if the economy improves we will be ok again. So yes that is a privilege of course. We have things we are tied into which are definitely considered luxuries, but how far do you take preparing for all the unknowns. We never thought DH would lose his job, or bills go up as they have. We had plenty spare at that point but things can change very quickly.

Bollocks.

from about 30k + you get very little in the way of benefits, and nothing from 37k+.

you need to practically homeless and starving before you get a council house.

this exactly what this thread is about. High earners like yourself whinging about having no money because “poor people” just get houses and money thrown at them by the benefits office.

try it and see. It is not comparable at all.

Yes this is not on, fine to have a moan to people in similar situations but that seems extremely inconsiderate.

The thing is that there are genuinely higher earners who are struggling, esp single parent or single income families but unfortunately people are not that understanding unless you are on minimum wage.

We're a single income household on more than that and after childcare to work full time and mortgage on a basic ex council house there's less than a grand a month to cover food for a while family, fuel to get to and from work, all bills, savings, and anything nice to have like holidays and Christmas. The higher rate tax, childcare, and high income child benefit payback really stuff you at that sort of income if you have young kids, especially if you're a single parent

You've literally just proved my point 😂

I have zero issue with people prioritising whatever they want over something else I wouldn't (I prioritise the pub, exhibitions and train fares to see people over getting my hair cut, for example. Plenty of people would say cut the pub!) My issue is people saying they are struggling when really they mean they can't do everything they want to and think that's unfair. If you want to prioritise an expensive phone or lunches at work rather than taking your own that's fine, but you can't then say you can't afford a meal out. You can, you are choosing not to.

I agree. I could not sleep knowing I am stretched out on good salary. If anything crops up and you can’t afford mortgage repayments, it means that you could never afford this house/car/private school etc.

And if you'd read my post properly you'd have seen that there were two examples there. Of course someone who is on bugger all and doesn't get those things is worse off than someone who can work for a higher wage without having to pay for fuel and childcare to do so. Just as someone who gets that support may be better off in the short term in terms of disposable income than someone else on a much higher wage. The point the OP made about disposable income after essentials is massive and should absolutely inform whether someone is being insensitive or not.

I agree OP. We have a high household income. Whilst I moan about our energy bills to my DP, which I think I'm vocalising more out of anguish for those who are actually struggling, we are certainly not struggling and I wouldn't dream of saying we were to anyone.

You made the point in your OP that you weren't talking about those on high incomes, with large outgoings, and I think you are talking more about people who have money and are frivolous, therefore I agree.

Bollocks.

from about 30k + you get very little in the way of benefits, and nothing from 37k+.

That's not true though. It depends on circumstances, housing situation & childcare costs.

why did you commit to a “huge mortgage” in an expensive area that would be unsustainable if circumstances change?

I bet it was still cheaper then renting!