People on good wages saying they are struggling

[ChopSuey2]

Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by people on good wages saying they are struggling?

I am not talking about people who have good wages but are paying off large debts or whose childcare leaves them broke, but people who say they can't afford to live on a certain amount but actually have a decent or even lots of money left after essentials. Equally, people whose essentials (food shopping and heating particularly) are ludicrously high (not including those with high costs related to disability).

I really feel like people need to read the room. People are genuinely struggling and saying you can't afford to live on a good wage is insensitive.

I'm not sure if it's relevant but I would consider myself to be on a good wage (not a higher tax payer and in London).

YABU - people can say they can't afford to live on a good wage because it's all relative
YANBU - people need to think about what being unable to afford things really means

I trying to point out that the daily rate of pay post-tax is horrendous.

Dp and I pay the same for fuel per week, his is a business expense, and mine has to come off my bottom line. There's no real money in working PAYE.

Everyone who gets a salary is on paye. And those on lower incomes who do not do tax returns like myself pay more.

Are you seriously suggesting more than double pay is somehow worse because you pay more tax?

I’ll quite happily pay the tax to double my take home pay.

like I said as well it’s not just the pay, it’s the ability to leverage against that salary to get over any financial humps. My manager just increased his mortgage by 30k to pay for a new kitchen and bathroom, plus release a little extra for a holiday. I don’t have that choice.

There's no real money in working PAYE.

True that, they certainly need to bring other taxes in line with income or lessen the burden on income.

A lot of people live just within their means, or just over with the help of credit, so when prices fluctuate it hits them bad. Doesn't mean they should be paid more though, but they should consider lifestyle changes that allow them to save a little.

No, I'm trying to point out that post-tax pay is shocking.
People keep saying £30000 is good pay, but in actual fact it's horrendous.

I’m not sure why you’d have more sympathy for someone with huge debts than someone that has lived frugally and has savings?

With rising costs, anything more than a basic lifestyle is getting to be unaffordable for most, and those used to luxuries will wonder why they've bothered studying/progressing in their careers if all they can afford is basic goods

Well on the plus side they can afford the basics.

Hate 'read the room' just because someone is on a good wage and struggling with budget doesn't make them less worthy to moan or ask questions on here than those who need food bank

This sums it up for me.

I agree! But only if you know the people's exact scenario.
For example... someone I know - her & her partner have a really good salary each, no kids. Decent sized house so probably do have higher costs related to that but they have said many times they are very lucky to not have felt the pinch and are still managing all their payments and not struggling.
But then posted a holiday photo on Instagram with the caption "wish I was back here instead of not being able to afford to put the heating on" even though everyone that knows them knows they can afford to!
Attention seeking for no reason 🙄

It's not about sympathy, it's that people with debts will have less disposable income than people in the same situation without debt.

But isn't that absolutely awful that now only the higher earners who were able to study for years etc are the one who can just afford the basics. Where does that leave people earning significantly less?

I dread to think what position 20-30 yos will be in where they haven't had the benefit of being able to save/buy a house when CoL was much lower like people in their 40s upwards had the benefit of.

I agree, for a long time the majority of the workforce had been insulated from spiralling housing costs and so lower wages weren't as much of an issue as they could've been. With every year that passes, fewer working aged people fall into this category. It's no wonder vital but poorly paid roles like care sector and TAs are increasingly hard to recruit for.

But it’s their choice to take on these debts. Forward thinking and future proofing should be considered when taking on debts that can’t be serviced if anything changes.

they could have chosen to live more comfortably within their means. Like those people on less money with more disposable income- why do you think that is? Because they have made different choices which has allowed a buffer if needed.

if someone has less disposable income than someone on half their salary then that’s a choice.

Some of those debts are a mortgage though and the increases are insane, same with energy bills, these alone are hundreds of pounds so potentially people did have a buffer. It can be really tough. I'm not really sure what the impact would be if everyone including high earners bought the cheapest 2 or 3 bedroom houses just in case, it wouldn't be good that's for sure.

I don't know the answer, I just know that it's a shit situation to be in for many people.

@Newnamenewme23 your post goes beyond the scope of my initial post. Whether people were irresponsible taking on large debts, desperate and doing whatever they could to survive, or any other reason, the reality is some people have debts which mean they have higher expenses and therefore less disposable income so are more likely to be financially struggling. It's not much use saying what they could or should of done when they already have the debts.

Yes, the missing part of this account is that it isn't a choice to have been born too late to be part of a generation with access to reasonably priced housing. There are some of us millennials who still have been able to buy quite cheaply, I'm one, but by definition it can't be all of us. And even then, the properties are probably a higher multiple of local earnings than they were pre 00s, and they wouldn't be as cheap as they were if other people wanted them too.

I'm not saying nobody has stupidly overextended themselves through choice, but higher housing costs are not something that many post 1980ish born people can opt out of. It is not fecklessness to have been born too late to buy one's first property decades back.

I don't think anyone even 18 months ago could have predicted these rises even if you had a good buffer and that's what scare people and that's what causes high incomes or the squeezed middle to be concerned and yes complain.

We live pretty frugally, small 2 bed house, mortgage is less then 60% LTV, moderate to old vehicles owned outright which we saved up for.
We had a very good buffer but our bills have doubled and its across everything. One or 2 aspects can be absorbed but when it's mortgage by £250-300, nursery fees by £200 for 2, food prices (gone from £250 a month to nearly £400) council tax by £60 energy bills by £200 with another increase in April etc Suddenly we need a buffer of nearly 1k and that's quite substantial when my DH income is pretty much cancelled out by nursery and our only debt is our mortgage!

We are "fortunate" in some ways DH had a close relative die and leave him 20k but we would much prefer if they were still with us!

The problem in this country is that schools teach Shakespeare but doesn’t teach any money management or even basic budgeting in schools

I agree, I'm an accountant and budget for everything, I have a cashflow sheet l, a bank rec and that's how I know we will be ok in X number of months/years. I also can manage when to pay bills or hold back on stuff. I save monthly for everything, including birthday/Xmas presents, additional food at Xmas and every tiny little thing, so there are no surprise bills (in an ideal world)

Even with doing all that there are surprises along the way such ad DH losing his job, the dog having to have major surgery and the insurance excluding a massive chunk of it. I know we are tight for cash right now but I have the knowledge to budget to the last penny which obviously helps manage the situation.

Of course you don't need to be an accountant to do this, basic budgeting taught at schools/colleges to me is extremely important and its disappointing this still doesn't happen.

Judging by the responses on the “middle name for Hero” thread they don’t teach much Shakespeare either 😳

Yep, in 2010 I was on 32k, promoted now but jobs at that level in 2023 are paying maybe 35- 36k.

And all this time the cost of everything has gone up and up

Sorry that made me lol

I have to admit that I pay for and use YNAB. It works well for me and stops me overspending