Page 3 | To wonder why some men hate women so much?

girlfriend44 · 2023-02-14T10:01:19+00:00

What's with all the misogyny? Why do some men hate women so much. Men can't exist without women? All men have a mother! Can't understand the likes of Wayne Couzens either he was married to a woman and had a daughter, yet he raped and killed a woman. Why didn't he care that his daughter now has to grow up knowing her father hated women and killed one?

Echobelly · 14/02/2023 13:38

Because despite equality laws etc you can't get rid of the 'narrative' about women that underpins society: that women are untrustworthy, that women are manipulative, that we lie, can't think objectively, are at each other's throats, that getting men is our top priority in life, that we are less ethical than men, that we don't like sex but if we do we're sluts etc.

WinterFoxes · 14/02/2023 13:41

@wellyoudidask33 - we are wondering why men threaten, beat, rape, murder, stalk, coherce women. Why professional men in roles of high authority like to humiliate and use women as if we were objects of no value (from David Carrick and Wayne Couzens to Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein.)

And your response is - well women can be bossy and make me do things I don't want to do. I'm presuming you mean things like clean out the garage when you wanted to watch the rugby, not making you sleep, hand cuffed and half starved in a cupboard, then pissing on you, like David Carrick did to his partner.

Have you any idea how cloth-eared you sound?

Men have no idea. I was once casually listing some of the things that complete strangers had done to me, listing them in a blithe way at dinner to DH. My teenage son overheard and came over in floods of tears and hugged me. he had no idea how routine it is for women to be followed at night, for complete strangers to try to force themselves onto women, expose themselves, slink up beside you on public transport and threaten to hurt and rape you, tell you with pleasure how easily they could kill you but they are 'nice' so they won't or they could rape you but you seem 'nice' so they won;t. This is so commonplace that when the #metoo thing got going, out of interest I made a list of how many times men had done things like this to me. I gave up at 77 and that was counting as 1 item on the list the neighbour who flashed at me and my friends every single day on our way to school.

LostMyUserName · 14/02/2023 13:51

redbigbananafeet · 14/02/2023 10:36

Because they can't have sex with us. Because we have he audacity to reject them and they cannot cope.

I think this means we have ‘the power’ and some men don’t like it that way.

We can choose who we have sex with, we can choose whether to have children, etc.

I think power and control is at the root of most VAWG.

WedonttalkaboutMaureen · 14/02/2023 13:52

WinterFoxes · 14/02/2023 12:01

I genuinely believe that men hate women because we give birth. From the beginning of time, men must have worked out that the ones without the tiny dangle of flesh between their legs are the ones that create miracles - our bodies swell and out come baby males and females. We have the ability to create all of humankind. Nothing they do will ever come close. I think that's why they closed rank and denied women the right to create anything else that was permanent - buildings, books etc. We have something they can never ever have. We can learn how to create buildings, make scientific breakthroughs - in all spheres of life we can, if we choose, enter their domain and match them. They can't ever match us in the thing that matters most - creation of life. It's why all major religions always asserts that a male figure actually created life first.

Yes I think this is so important too.

And also one of the reasons I don't follow any organised religion.

Thesharkradar · 14/02/2023 13:52

Because men always want to be the winners, to have Dominion, to subordinate us and make us work for them
But we are better than men, that's why they hate us

Mojoj · 14/02/2023 13:55

JoonT · 14/02/2023 11:44

I don't believe the majority of men hate women, but for sure a minority do – and that minority is growing.

Somebody on a separate MN thread made a very good point. They were talking about the rise of single, childless women, who are happy on their own and don't want a partner. They pointed out that women don't need men as much as they used to. It's now OK to be single and childless, and to live on your own. You can earn your own money, buy your own house, go out drinking just for fun (and not to meet someone), etc. As a consequence, men must bring something to a relationship. Throughout most of human history, they didn't need to bring anything at all. They could bank on women needing them for money, security, social acceptance (to be unmarried was almost shameful), and so on.

The problem, of course, is that a lot of men have nothing to offer. They are oafish, boring, shallow, ignorant and miserable. And no woman wants them. Even as late as the 1980s, it was still shameful to be a single woman over 30. It was also shameful to be a single mum. So women put up with the most unbelievable shit from men – anything rather than be alone. That is changing – fast. And some men can't cope. A lot of them still expect single women over 35 to be desperate/grateful for their attention. It puzzles and enrages them that lots of women are now saying "nah, it's OK, don't want you, don't need you. I'm happy on my own. If I meet a lovely guy, who is kind and funny and interesting, then great, but if not, that's fine too."

Crap men can no longer bank on finding a woman, and it's making them furious. A woman on her own, with a career and friends, is not going to allow some moaning, farting, burping oaf, with zero conversation, to move in and wreck her life. And she sure as hell ain't going to look after him. Fifty years ago, she might have done, but not today.

This. In a nutshell. And it's killing the useless, entitled males out there who just cannot grasp that they need to up their game significantly to get any interest from a successful and happy female.

GiantPandaAttacks · 14/02/2023 13:57

The 2 things that annoy me most about women are bossiness and being used - perhaps being manipulated.

Well, Mr self-confessed potato head, let me tell you what annoys me most about men. The fact that I was first verbally sexually assaulted at 11. First sexually assaulted at 14. The continuing belief of men that I can apparently only exist for sex and cleaning. The damage to my career that simply being a woman of child-baring age has wrought. The fact that as a teacher, I now see the vile and rampant misogyny encouraged by fathers who refuse to teach their sons to be better.

I also loathe the concept of ‘bossiness’. You’re being asked to engage in life. My father spent most of his time at home slumped on the sofa in front of the television. He too regarded being asked to engage in family life, or to help keep the living space clean, ‘bossiness’. ‘Used’ as well. How frequently the cry of a man expected to financially support his household or children that is. How very difficult you must find life.

It does however take some serious balls to come onto a thread in which women are discussing the serious threat to our health and lives which is misogyny and whine in that way that you have.

LostMyUserName · 14/02/2023 13:59

CaveMum · 14/02/2023 10:37

Oops, that should be "not knowing our place".

Basically some men don't like the fact that many women won't kow tow to men and their wants/desires.

Show quote history

Yes, maybe men perceive themselves as losing their place in society. They are no longer the big earner, the board members, the CEOs…

Except they still are.

Fifi00 · 14/02/2023 13:59

testosterone, wayne couzens killed Sarah because he had a sexual fantasy he wanted to live out. He got sexual gratification from the murder he dehumanised her so it was easy for him to do. It's vile but smen don't think the same way women do, almost no women alone ( without a male accomplice ) murder for sexual gratification. It's quite a common motive for men .

Climbles · 14/02/2023 14:00

They feel entitled to have power over women but women have to power to say no to sex. Usually because of their lack of social skills and terrible personalities these guys don’t get to have enough sex with the types of women they feel entitled to. They see women they think look sexually available (dressed in a certain way, out at night etc) and then feel enraged that even these ‘slags’ won’t shag them.
They often also get angry and the ‘good’ women for not being slutty enough for them. Even though they hate sluts. It’s a weird Madonna/whore complex thing IMO

LostMyUserName · 14/02/2023 14:02

Dijoduo · 14/02/2023 10:41

It’s for similar reasons that many people hate members of the “other”. The same reasons that some women hate men, the same reasons some white people hate black peoples, the same reason some Pakistani hate Indians, the same reason some tenants hate landlords, the same reason gangs hate members of other gangs…

They blame them for their problems, usually without basis but with sufficient foundation to convince themselves (or be convinced by others) that it’s a fair blame.

Some men hate women because they blame women for their place in society - this is the premise of incel culture. Men are only respected in life if they are what women find attractive - almost no unattractive men are successful. That creates a bizarre chicken-and-egg style narrative where some men think that if women found them attractive then they would be successful (rather than the, more likely, reality that if they were successful then women would find them attractive). They then blame women for not finding them attractive - if women changed then their life would be better. That’s the crux of it really.

In addition, with increased equality and autonomy, women are taking from men what used to be theirs. The best jobs, the best opportunities, housework-free lives, childcare-free lives etc - all of that has been stripped away by women establishing themselves as equal. Some men don’t like that. Some men find that their lives are harder because of it.

Their attitudes are obviously wrong, but it’s not hard to see how they’ve either ignorantly convinced themselves into that belief or been manipulated by others into thinking that way. These men hate women because if we prioritised their desires over our own then their life would be better - they view us as powerful and uncaring and they completely fail to recognise that we’re entitled to prioritise our happiness over theirs.

I wonder if this extends to the image of success too. A man is patted on the back if he has a ‘nice’ wife and a family. If a man is ‘denied’ this (in his opinion) then he feels a woman has robbed him of that.

CurlyCabbage · 14/02/2023 14:08

Squeezita · 14/02/2023 11:00

@Dijoduo

the same reason some Pakistani hate Indians

Let me guess... you're Indian

Try to be a little balanced instead of picking on one minority.

Glad someone pointed that out. What a weird example to use.

Naunet · 14/02/2023 14:10

Fifi00 · 14/02/2023 13:59

testosterone, wayne couzens killed Sarah because he had a sexual fantasy he wanted to live out. He got sexual gratification from the murder he dehumanised her so it was easy for him to do. It's vile but smen don't think the same way women do, almost no women alone ( without a male accomplice ) murder for sexual gratification. It's quite a common motive for men .

Testosterone may make men a little more violent, but it doesn’t explain the hatred and dehumanising view of women.

LostMyUserName · 14/02/2023 14:10

Why are some male egos so fragile that they depend on women to validate them?

Grizzledstrawberry · 14/02/2023 14:17

wellyoudidask33 · 14/02/2023 12:20

58 year old potato head man here. I am not confessing to being a misogynist and I certainly like women more than most mumsnetters seem to like men, but you did ask.
The 2 things that annoy me most about women are bossiness and being used - perhaps being manipulated. Of course many men also have those faults but the question is: 'what's with all the misogyny.'

As a generalisation I think bossiness is more a female trait than a male. I am aware of the argument that bossy men are not criticised but praised as assertive. I don't think it is true. I think most assertive men are called bullies. But even if I'm wrong on that I still don't like bossy people. I dont like bossy or assertive men. None of my male friends are bossy. None of the men in my family are bossy, but quite a few of the women are. It leads to tension and drama if you resist, or to doing things you don't want to do if you don't resist. I suspect bossiness is one of the reasons why so many women don't get on with their mothers in law. 2 women fighting for supremacy.
So bossiness is a red flag for me.

Secondly, I am fed up of being used. Perhaps even of being deceived. I am now suspicious of a woman if she smiles at me. How sad is that? For years my simple male heart soared when a woman smiled. Things were going to be alright. Life was going to be good. But I've finally learnt. I now realise it is almost always because she wants something from me. Help at work, a lift to the station, a bit of heavy lifting. But it's not just small things, it is big things too. Once my wife had had the big wedding she wanted and then the children she wanted, I was no longer required. The smiles stopped. And please it did cross my simple male mind to do my share of the housework and child care.

Some women treat men badly. And for saying that I will be told I am sexist and that I am whingeing and that the men probably deserved it. For what it is worth, some of the men might have deserved it.
But then it might not be a gender/sex thing. It might be a people thing. It might be people treat people badly. But we expect to be treated well not badly by the person we marry. When that goes wrong there is a lot of hurt to be managed. It can lead to bitterness. One only has to read Mumsnet for a few hours to realise that.

PS - I'm not whingeing about my ex and I hope I am not bitter. My ex is a decent, impressive woman and even if she wasn't, without her we wouldn't have our daughter who has brought me so much joy and taught me more about life and love than anyone or anything else. And if I am blessed with granddaughters (and yes I know that isn't my choice) I would be a very happy old potato head.

Do you think it might be because women need to be 'bossy' sometimes so they aren't used as a doormat.

Its the same as nagging, women get called Nags because they insist their partner do their fair share, its deemed bad on the woman for been the nag but not the man for not doing his fairshare.

Why should we have to do everything and keep our mouths shut? If I have to be bossy so someone doesn't take the piss out of me then so be it.

DigitalTranny · 14/02/2023 14:19

That’s what they learn from an early age. They see it from their father, uncles, cousins and other men around them. And it doesn’t always take an aggressive physical form. It’s also things they say, like: “a woman’s place is in the kitchen” or “women should get married and have children” and often the men who say these things never laid a finger on anyone and are not considered aggressive. But the latent misogyny is there.
What really gets me is when they are anti-abortion. I don’t even have words for that fuckery.
And when they talk about women, they only mean the ones they consider attractive and fuckable. They don’t mean the ugly, old, unattractive or disabled ones. So they are very selective in their thinking (they think with their dicks, as per usual)
I also hate how when they get married they joke with their mates how their freedom has ended and their wives are always harpies and dragons to be feared/obeyed and discussed over a pint. It’s some bollocks as old as humanity.

theadultsaretalking · 14/02/2023 14:19

WinterFoxes · 14/02/2023 12:01

I genuinely believe that men hate women because we give birth. From the beginning of time, men must have worked out that the ones without the tiny dangle of flesh between their legs are the ones that create miracles - our bodies swell and out come baby males and females. We have the ability to create all of humankind. Nothing they do will ever come close. I think that's why they closed rank and denied women the right to create anything else that was permanent - buildings, books etc. We have something they can never ever have. We can learn how to create buildings, make scientific breakthroughs - in all spheres of life we can, if we choose, enter their domain and match them. They can't ever match us in the thing that matters most - creation of life. It's why all major religions always asserts that a male figure actually created life first.

I totally agree, to me that hatred comes from a very deep, visceral space. Women have the ultimate power of being a life creator which is practically a divine power, hence to feel safe, men feel that they need to keep us down. Just in case we get very angry and goddess-like and destroy their cozy world :)

nilsmousehammer · 14/02/2023 14:21

LostMyUserName · 14/02/2023 14:10

Why are some male egos so fragile that they depend on women to validate them?

The difference in what the world expects of women, and what women expect of women, is all over this board.

AIBU is a blood bath, and the relationships board is an amazing resource of women having tough standards and tough love to support other women when needed, there's nothing sloshy, sentimental or indulgent. Women expect huge amounts of capacity, resilience and strength of themselves and other women.

IClaudine · 14/02/2023 14:25

Why should we have to do everything and keep our mouths shut? If I have to be bossy so someone doesn't take the piss out of me then so be it

Totally agree.

LexMitior · 14/02/2023 14:34

Stop thinking about men as a class. Apply a different test which is whether they are helpful, kind and/or polite.

This is nearly bulletproof because a really sexist man cannot keep that going, and women with similar views to sexist men equally cannot manage.

Thoughtful people are good people, imo

nilsmousehammer · 14/02/2023 14:37

As usual, male person appears and tries to argue a) if women were less bossy, knew their place and were nice maybe men wouldn't hate women, which is rule 1 of misogyny isn't it? Everything men do is women's fault? and b) making it clear that being bossy is the same 'literal violence' equivalent of rape, murder, the posters in the street with smiling politicians standing with them saying to behead and murder women who want equality of rights and not to be raped in prison.

I was eight the first time I learned that if you're in possession of female biology, you cannot ever be alone in a place out of public sight. Actually I wasn't alone, I sent my toddler sister to safety and stood and faced down the group of thugs who demanded that I undressed for them and then tried to undress me forcibly in an attempt to protect her. I was eleven when a bloke took advantage of finding me alone on the upper floor of the bus - I liked the view - to attempt to sexually assault me, and then threaten to kill me if I told. Both were complete strangers. Both felt entitled to forcibly access the body I was walking around in.

Gawd, if all women had to worry about was 'bossy' men and manipulative men.....

Baldieheid · 14/02/2023 14:45

JoonT · 14/02/2023 11:44

I don't believe the majority of men hate women, but for sure a minority do – and that minority is growing.

Somebody on a separate MN thread made a very good point. They were talking about the rise of single, childless women, who are happy on their own and don't want a partner. They pointed out that women don't need men as much as they used to. It's now OK to be single and childless, and to live on your own. You can earn your own money, buy your own house, go out drinking just for fun (and not to meet someone), etc. As a consequence, men must bring something to a relationship. Throughout most of human history, they didn't need to bring anything at all. They could bank on women needing them for money, security, social acceptance (to be unmarried was almost shameful), and so on.

The problem, of course, is that a lot of men have nothing to offer. They are oafish, boring, shallow, ignorant and miserable. And no woman wants them. Even as late as the 1980s, it was still shameful to be a single woman over 30. It was also shameful to be a single mum. So women put up with the most unbelievable shit from men – anything rather than be alone. That is changing – fast. And some men can't cope. A lot of them still expect single women over 35 to be desperate/grateful for their attention. It puzzles and enrages them that lots of women are now saying "nah, it's OK, don't want you, don't need you. I'm happy on my own. If I meet a lovely guy, who is kind and funny and interesting, then great, but if not, that's fine too."

Crap men can no longer bank on finding a woman, and it's making them furious. A woman on her own, with a career and friends, is not going to allow some moaning, farting, burping oaf, with zero conversation, to move in and wreck her life. And she sure as hell ain't going to look after him. Fifty years ago, she might have done, but not today.

Incels in a nutshell.

Beautifully put.

LexMitior · 14/02/2023 14:49

JoonT is on the money.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 14/02/2023 15:10

As a single woman with no children in her 50s I am regularly told I am 'too independent'. I have asked several people who have said this to explain it to me. No one can. What it really means, imho, is that not needing men makes me very threatening to men who know that without male privilege, they have little to offer because they have made no effort to develop into interesting and capable humans, or if they have, are willing to encroach on anothers time to make their lives easier. I wont put up with that, so therefore there is something wrong with me.

LexMitior · 14/02/2023 15:12

@Atethehalloweenchocs - it means they are annoyed that you will not be seduced and persuaded that male sock management is really what you want to do.