To wonder why some men hate women so much?

[girlfriend44]

What's with all the misogyny?
Why do some men hate women so much.
Men can't exist without women?
All men have a mother!
Can't understand the likes of Wayne Couzens either he was married to a woman and had a daughter, yet he raped and killed a woman.
Why didn't he care that his daughter now has to grow up knowing her father hated women and killed one?

I think about this often, expecially since having a son myself and vowing to not create another toxic male, I also have a teenage daughter who im so scared for in this world, having to teach your daughter to keep herself safe from men is just shit.

I often think mothers don't help either, its so ingrained in them too that men are above, I know from my own experience sons can do no wrong but daughters certainly can, boys get to live freely and experience childhood, girls are expected to do chores and childcare for younger siblings, so the boys learn from a young age they are above girls in many ways.

I think (some) women need to take some responsibility too and make sure we don't keep making these same mistakes, and the mothers of boys do better, raise them better, its the only way its going to change.

I don't believe the majority of men hate women, but for sure a minority do – and that minority is growing.

Somebody on a separate MN thread made a very good point. They were talking about the rise of single, childless women, who are happy on their own and don't want a partner. They pointed out that women don't need men as much as they used to. It's now OK to be single and childless, and to live on your own. You can earn your own money, buy your own house, go out drinking just for fun (and not to meet someone), etc. As a consequence, men must bring something to a relationship. Throughout most of human history, they didn't need to bring anything at all. They could bank on women needing them for money, security, social acceptance (to be unmarried was almost shameful), and so on.

The problem, of course, is that a lot of men have nothing to offer. They are oafish, boring, shallow, ignorant and miserable. And no woman wants them. Even as late as the 1980s, it was still shameful to be a single woman over 30. It was also shameful to be a single mum. So women put up with the most unbelievable shit from men – anything rather than be alone. That is changing – fast. And some men can't cope. A lot of them still expect single women over 35 to be desperate/grateful for their attention. It puzzles and enrages them that lots of women are now saying "nah, it's OK, don't want you, don't need you. I'm happy on my own. If I meet a lovely guy, who is kind and funny and interesting, then great, but if not, that's fine too."

Crap men can no longer bank on finding a woman, and it's making them furious. A woman on her own, with a career and friends, is not going to allow some moaning, farting, burping oaf, with zero conversation, to move in and wreck her life. And she sure as hell ain't going to look after him. Fifty years ago, she might have done, but not today.

11th rule of misogyny: Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men

I've noticed in soaps that men are being given the occurrences that so often happen to women -

Stuart in Eastenders was diagnosed with breast cancer. Fair enough, it was raising awareness that men can get it too.

Ben being raped in Eastenders. He got what could be considered closure by getting the bloke to admit it. Doesn't happen very often IME.

Harvey in Eastenders being romance scammed.

Ruairi in The Archers sugar dating or whatever the term is.

Has anyone else noticed that? Or am I just being picky?

Good post, @JoonT.

Some men feel threatened by strong minded women and they can't handle it. Not helped by some stupid women pandering to the "that's the way he is," "he's a man what do you expect?"
Some posters on mn make me want to throw things after reading about their dh /p's bad behaviour them they trot out the old chesnut 'but I love him'. He acts like a complete shit but they put up with it and their partner probably thinks "Silly bitch, I can get away with it 'cos she luvves me".
Their dc see and hear all this creating the next generation of waste of space men and needy women who can't breathe without a man in their bed no matter how awful he is.

There is much to be said for this. I've noticed how many of the women that were in my year at school have either never married or settled down and are intentionally enjoying single life well into middle age, or briefly married and left without looking back when it turned out to be a bad experience. Many are single mums.

Misogyny is so entirely normal, so totally ingrained, it is still so acceptable to speak about and treat women in ways that would never be accepted to other groups, that it underpins everything. We watch the BBC have a group of men sitting together discussing what women are, what rights women should be permitted to have, and the few women who complain are shrugged off. Three women a week die in domestic violence, it's just accepted. I remember watching my kids lining up in the playgroup and noticing even the reception kids, boys barged into the line rather than join the back, girls gave space and moved and in some cases went themselves to the back of the line, and the entirely female staff rarely noticed or challenged boys doing this, or encouraged girls to stand their ground. Even at four it's there.

I remember a few years back a few MNetters trying out walking down a busy street not automatically giving way to men and how many times it ended in a collision and male confusion or annoyance because the instinctive assumption that the ground would always be given was so ingrained.

I genuinely believe that men hate women because we give birth. From the beginning of time, men must have worked out that the ones without the tiny dangle of flesh between their legs are the ones that create miracles - our bodies swell and out come baby males and females. We have the ability to create all of humankind. Nothing they do will ever come close. I think that's why they closed rank and denied women the right to create anything else that was permanent - buildings, books etc. We have something they can never ever have. We can learn how to create buildings, make scientific breakthroughs - in all spheres of life we can, if we choose, enter their domain and match them. They can't ever match us in the thing that matters most - creation of life. It's why all major religions always asserts that a male figure actually created life first.

I was wondering why so many men hate women but also so many men want to be women. I feel its a complicated relationship.

Women hold the keys to Sex.

Men want sex and many think they are entitled to it.

@JoonT This 👏

58 year old potato head man here. I am not confessing to being a misogynist and I certainly like women more than most mumsnetters seem to like men, but you did ask.
The 2 things that annoy me most about women are bossiness and being used - perhaps being manipulated. Of course many men also have those faults but the question is: 'what's with all the misogyny.'

As a generalisation I think bossiness is more a female trait than a male. I am aware of the argument that bossy men are not criticised but praised as assertive. I don't think it is true. I think most assertive men are called bullies. But even if I'm wrong on that I still don't like bossy people. I dont like bossy or assertive men. None of my male friends are bossy. None of the men in my family are bossy, but quite a few of the women are. It leads to tension and drama if you resist, or to doing things you don't want to do if you don't resist. I suspect bossiness is one of the reasons why so many women don't get on with their mothers in law. 2 women fighting for supremacy.
So bossiness is a red flag for me.

Secondly, I am fed up of being used. Perhaps even of being deceived. I am now suspicious of a woman if she smiles at me. How sad is that? For years my simple male heart soared when a woman smiled. Things were going to be alright. Life was going to be good. But I've finally learnt. I now realise it is almost always because she wants something from me. Help at work, a lift to the station, a bit of heavy lifting. But it's not just small things, it is big things too. Once my wife had had the big wedding she wanted and then the children she wanted, I was no longer required. The smiles stopped. And please it did cross my simple male mind to do my share of the housework and child care.

Some women treat men badly. And for saying that I will be told I am sexist and that I am whingeing and that the men probably deserved it. For what it is worth, some of the men might have deserved it.
But then it might not be a gender/sex thing. It might be a people thing. It might be people treat people badly. But we expect to be treated well not badly by the person we marry. When that goes wrong there is a lot of hurt to be managed. It can lead to bitterness. One only has to read Mumsnet for a few hours to realise that.

PS - I'm not whingeing about my ex and I hope I am not bitter. My ex is a decent, impressive woman and even if she wasn't, without her we wouldn't have our daughter who has brought me so much joy and taught me more about life and love than anyone or anything else. And if I am blessed with granddaughters (and yes I know that isn't my choice) I would be a very happy old potato head.

Some women hate men disproportionately too.

Some people just don't like people

"Men can't exist without women?
All men have a mother!"

Some of the reasons are to do with this, in OP's comment. Resentment, fear of women, anger re perceived sexual rejection. The male ego is extremely fragile. Toxic masculinity culture and patriarchal values are embedded in the cultural programming of males. I often think our little boys are more prone to being rejected by their fathers than girls. Many boys have v dysfunctional relationships, if any... With fathers.

It’s because they rely on us for sex, love, affection, to have their children etc and they resent us for it.

Really?! Are women out there raping and murdering and beating men then? Are they committing terrorist attacks because they can’t get attractive men to date them? Let’s not pretend it’s even close to the same level, we’ve never oppressed men, never refused them basic human rights, whereas men have done it to us in almost every single country around the world.

Because we're the gatekeepers of their legacy: we get to decide who is good enough to stay in the gene pool and who will be snuffed out.

I admit I’m really not a fan of men and would happily live a life free of them, however I would never hurt a man, or try to impose any hatred onto them, I’m happy to avoid them.
And there lies the difference.

Definitely this!

Exactly, women who hate men just want to stay away from them. Men who hate women want to hurt us.

Quite honestly I feel man are a different species that I don't like and I don't want to be around them at all.
At work this year - bearing in mind that I'm 60 years old, I have been flashed by a colleague who thought it was hilarious, I've had male patients striding into my clinic room without an appointment demanding to be seen right there and then.
I've had two husbands who changed dramatically after we were married and expected me to be their personal waitress and floor scrubber whilst living in my house.
My father was violent and threw me out at 16.
They have huge egos and think their needs always come first.
Of course they don't want equality, no way are they going to be 2nd class citizens and downtrodden like us.
I get not all men but enough to make life really uncomfortable.

I’ve recommended this book before, but The Politics of Breastfeeding is an excellent read.

It goes into detail about the male-led systems that have systematically undermined motherhood, birth, child rearing and breastfeeding.

And here we have it, you think being asked for lifts/“used” and bossiness is comparable to what women face from men all over the world?! Really think about that.

Exactly – men don't want equality. That's it in a nutshell. Or, to be fair, some men don't want equality. Why would a landowner give up his power and land and become one of the peasants?!!

I hope we are moving to a situation in which it's ok for both women and men to be single and live alone. For too long, being single or childless was considered odd. You were a weirdo, a failure, even an outcast. So introverts, people with low sex drives, people who didn't really want kids, etc, forced themselves to live an unhappy life because that was just what you did. I have a hunch that 20 or 30 years from now (especially if silicon valley comes up with life extending drugs), being single, or living alone, will be the norm rather than the exception.

Truth is, a lot of people (both male and female) aren't cut out for relationships, and aren't suited to living with somebody else. My gut feeling is that only a third of the population should marry and commit. The rest would be better off forming other kinds of relationships (open marriages, polygamous arrangements, celibacy, living alone, living with friends, using a sperm donor and raising the child alone, whatever). 50% of marriages end in divorce, and of the remaining 50%, at least a third or more are miserable. Even the people who DO stay together often do so for financial reasons.

Misogyny is baked in and has been for millennia. It will take many many more years to solve the deep rooted causes of misogyny.

Men have had a sense of power over women through the patriarchy since life began. Unfortunately some people like to abuse their power and feel they have the right to take whatever they want.

Even as a child in the 80's/90's I had friends who dreamt of their wedding day, to literally stand in front of a man and pledge in front of god (our FATHER) to honour and obey. Urgh!

Let's not forget all the fairytales, Disney films etc that are literally teaching the youngest and most influential minds in our society that meeting a man to look after you is the ultimate goal. It's depressing.

The murder of Emma Pattison was the latest depression confirmation. So many men are threatened by successful woman. I have a friend whose career has been constantly undermined by her husband because she's more talented than him.