15 minute cities and the conspirators

[ivykaty44]

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to everything and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys

the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156

I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off.

Some cities have gone car free - theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

Out of town shopping centres are pedestrianised but they aren't the type of stores you need on a daily basis, or a weekly basis. What the 15 minute city is trying to do is provide the shops you need for daily living - right on your doorstep, so you can walk or ride there or scooter if they ever make them legal in the uk like in Europe.

What is the objection to having shops that you need on your doorstep?

The scooters are legal aren't they, there are loads of them in our town, I saw a burnt out one up a footpath the other day, they are sometimes just thrown down in the street and the local youth play on them, they certainly don't seem to be used as they should.

The scooters are legal aren't they, there are loads of them in our town,
it depends if your town is on the trial and they are here scooters - if so they are legal but if they are privately owned they are not legal on the road or on the path, they are only allowed on private land.

In European cities they are regularly used to to get about a city quickly and for hire or people own them. They are great alternative to walking a 3 mile trip for instance and work well abroad.

hire scooters not *here

www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/connecting-oxfordshire/active-travel/e-scooter-trial. Oxford among other places - 31 I think have them on trial until 24

No one is proposing that there should be no exceptions to people remaining at home or in their permitted travel zones- of course there will be circumstances when people need to travel further afield.

The Oxford scheme would permit further travel twice a week. I would personally permit two further trips via public transport on top of this, so that should be ample for the vast majority.

The Oxford scheme would permit further travel twice a week. I would personally permit two further trips via public transport on top of this, so that should be ample for the vast majority.

Oxford scheme is not restricting travel to twice a week and they are not restricting public transport travel

^However, it is important to note that travel to other areas of Oxford will be permitted by alternative routes, such as the ring road surrounding the city, at any time. Residents will also be able to apply for permits to drive through filters and into other neighbourhoods for up to 100 days a year, while Oxfordshire residents will be able to secure permits for up to 25 days a year. Free travel through filters will be allowed by bus, bike, taxi, scooter, and walking. Exemptions will also be provided for carers, blue badge holders, business, and emergency services. This element of the plan is indicative of its aims to incentivise sustainable private and public transport, with Oxfordshire County Council wanting to make such modes of transport ‘the natural first choice’.*

"Permitted" travel zones...sounds like a dystopian nightmare. Like the Hunger Games or something. What happens if you go in the wrong zone? What if you can't get what you inn need in your permitted zone? What if you can't walk 15 minutes carrying shopping ( like me, I don't consider myself disabled, but I soon would be if I did that - carrying anything for more than about 2 minutes causes pain that increases every time I do it. Or like my son, not disabled enough for a badge, but still can't walk 15 minutes to the shop and back again).
Creating outdoor prisons is not the way forward. If discouraging cars is the aim, then proper, decent public transport needs to be put in place first. And the penalty shouldn't be financial - fines /charges mean that the wealthy can continue to use their cars , but not the poor.

Probably going to need a fines kitty for in the future, I had one during covid in case I got caught straying out of local

@DelphiniumBlue. but you can live in the hunger games if you want - but nobody is making you do that - you're creating the nightmare for yourself as it doesn't exist

With the correct infrastructure and improved public transport, and incentives to use it, or bikes (eg, increased parking costs in town), the zones could work. The end result could be good.

Introducing it as it is now, restricting movement with poor public transport, fines for moving out of your zone, does indeed sound like hunger games. There are cities I’ve been to where pedestrianisation is logical, you can park on the outskirts and use cheap and frequent public transport, which locals also use because it saves the faff of driving and paying extortionate prices for parking. In these cities though (apart from the pollution zones in London) no one is limited to a set number of times they can travel out of their area, they don’t need a permit to travel, don’t need to appeal for a permit, which as someone upthread said could be refused, or further limited.

Using these methods is about control, whether intended or not. If it wasn’t the council would set about improving things before limiting people to smaller areas, and would likely gain the same end result, but without the need for permits, applications of said permits, and policing people’s movement.

And quite frankly I’m shocked that anyone would be compliant enough to happily accept these zones and potential fines and limited freedom of movement.

and so the misinformation continues with fake news that people will not be allowed out of their zones..its ridiculous that you spout this rubbish

People will be able to go anywhere as long as they use a bus or train though.

If they wish to travel in their own car there will be restrictions.

Like I said, put in the infrastructure and improved public transport and the rest will fall into place.

Using fines and restrictions as a plan is weird and controlling.

Miamoor, it's not about control if its making life more free for some

The Oxford scheme would permit further travel twice a week. I would personally permit two further trips via public transport on top of this, so that should be ample for the vast majority

What the....? Why would public transport be rationed too? Fuck me, I am getting flashback to lockdown.

My point is that the same effect could be achieved with positive proactive measures, as has worked in other cities.

My point is that the same effect could be achieved with positive proactive measures, as has worked in other cities, without the restrictions and threats of fines.

Not data but personal experience.

It was many years ago that Trafford council made parking free for a while. At the time my DC were very young and we went to nursery and playgroup there. We had coffee, bought books, fruit and veg and clothes from the local shops. The shopkeepers who I knew well said that business had improved. But of course the council went back in it. Most of those shops are gone now.

Similarly years ago the Manchester Evening News reported that parking charges in Manchester were to go up and that free parking on Saturday afternoon and Sunday was stopping. A few months later it was reporting falls in sales and reduced footfall. What a surprise. Make it harder for people to visit and they won't bother.

I've stopped going to Manchester now and go to the Trafford centre instead. I can park there for free. And I'm using my local shops less because they've built flats on the car park so I go into the town instead. It's a complete PITA and is getting worse.

Ffs we had this years ago before every family had a car, people would walk to the doctors, dentist, greengrocer etc. it was called a community.

Trust the government to spend decades destroying communities with expansion of town centres and high rise living only to bring them back again under a shiny new name and at a cost of millions.

Personally I wish our government has enough brains between them to organise a decent conspiracy.

whiteroseredrose

50% of households in Manchester don’t own a car, outside of London it’s the highest non car owning population. This is due to trans and bus service.

why should the planners focus solely on drivers when 50% don’t drive

My point is that the same effect could be achieved with positive proactive measures, as has worked in other cities.

name the city with clean air and what measure have they taken that’s reduced car travel to this level?

Musmoor, my point is, its not limited freedom for everyone, its more

I was thinking about this last night. For a start, where are all these doctors, dentists, schools/teachers, libraries/librarians etc etc coming from so that everyone has one within 15 minutes? and who pays for them? (actually, I know the answer to that one). A lot of playing fields have been sold off - how are you going to reinstate them, knock houses down? this all sounds really good in theory, re-establishing local communities and the like. How is it going to work in practice?

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

Oh well, let's just give up and drown in our own flab while sitting in metal boxes

Ghent

news.sky.com/story/how-belgian-mayor-faced-down-death-threats-to-make-his-citys-transport-go-green-12813731