15 minute cities and the conspirators

[ivykaty44]

15 minute cities being organised to mean that you don't have to rely on a car to get to everything and can easily walk to many places therefore only have to use the car for longer journeys

the conspiracy theories im seeing on social media are suggesting its a world wide control formula and we will be fined for moving from one district to another.

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/08/15-minute-city-conspiracy-theories-insane-says-15-minute-city-creator/?sh=121378916156

I'm wondering if the car manufactures are behind the conspiracy, as they would have a lot to lose if people live in places where they don't need a car and can just ave one family car or hire a car. Billions of sales could be lost if this takes off.

Some cities have gone car free - theculturetrip.com/europe/spain/articles/the-car-free-spanish-city/ and found after much objection, that it works well - especially for the elderly

People are reacting emotionally to this because they've spent so much money on their cars, that they need to get to the jobs to pay for their cars.

Our car is paid for. It's 8 1/2 year old and cost tent grand. My husband's work is over an hour drive away and impossible to reach by public transport. It costs my son £12 per day to get to and from 6th form college by train, or dh can drop him off on the way to work.
The city ds attends college in is to be a clean air zone and our car is 6 months too old to qualify for an exemption. So I suppose we will need to replace our perfectly good car with a newer one very soon.
There is no park and ride for this city and it's supported by incredibly poor public transport.

I find it really upsetting that there are a whole raft of new 'green' policies coming in with no thought to providing viable inexpensive alternatives but I'm choosing to believe it's incompetence/apathy rather than conspiracy.

Well it's not a 'perfectly good' car if its more polluting than a newer one. I'm sure most people's log burners are 'perfectly good', as in they work, doesn't mean they're good

I'm in favour of ensuring that all the amenities I might need to visit regularly are provided within a 15 minute walk, with regular public transport provided for those amenities that aren't.

Oxford's half-baked scheme doesn't do that though. The public transport provision is appalling, the council appear to be going for the stick rather than the carrot.

@ivykaty44 Agree this is not a rural concept. But if you look at Oxford where there has been a lot of 15 minute city chat and conspiracy chat, the restrictions to encourage/force this (depending on your outlook) are actually being imposed MORE harshly on people living outside the city where public transport is worse and walking/cycling distances are longer - basically there will be passes to get through the bus only gates and if you live in the city you get 100 a year and if you live rurally around the city you get only 25. I think virtually everyone agrees we need to be greener and some inconvenience will come from that, but it’s harder to reduce car use if you live rurally and we need a plan so people can do basic stuff like get to work.

You live in a city in rural Norfolk?

The answer to that, is that it should be costing £12 a week for your son to get to college not £12 a day.

But the trains are a mess

Oxford is a compact, medieval city.

It cannot fit all the cars that want to get in, in.

Oxford needs more public transport. People really shouldn't be driving into medieval cities unless there is no alternative

We already have this in my London suburb. In a 15 min walk I can access a museum, three parks, a library, a leisure centre, five pubs, five restaurants, four cafes, a good number of shops, 2 chemists, a GP, a dentist, a supermarket, a secondary achool, 2 primary schools.

Extend it to 30 mins and the choice is massively increased.

It's a great thing and why many people want to live in cities like London.

I get the train to work (a12 min train journey)

Forgot to add three hairdressers, a nail bar and a butchers.

No but it does impact those of us living rurally (or at least outside of the city). The city near me is planning to impose such a scheme and due to the diversions and re-routing, our "nearest local hospital" is now a 3.5 hour round trip (or 4 buses) away over double what it was. Not to mention the commute to work and increasing congestion around areas not under the scheme.

@ivykaty44 The car free city in Spain has only done what a lot of our cities have already done.
They stopped cars crossing the city and got rid of street parking, as people looking for a place to park is what causes the most congestion. They closed all surface car parks in the city centre and opened underground ones and others on the periphery, with 1,686 free places. They got rid of traffic lights in favour of roundabouts, extended the car-free zone from the old city to the 18th-century area, and used traffic calming in the outer zones to bring the speed limit down to 30km/h.
Note the aim was to reduce car use, not to make money, so free parking provided. In Britain they always try and make money as well so charge you a fortune to park and to get in by public transport.

By the way the city centre will be inaccessible to many disabled and elderly people now whatever you say.

In Oxford the plans they put in place now have increased congestion to the point where the coach network that brings students in and out of Oxford from the rural areas have said it won't work and are ceasing the service this summer.

So, the direct result of this is the schools no longer serviced will use their own solution meaning MORE vehicles being added to service the rural areas for EACH school.

This is before they implement 15 minute zones.

They have lost their bloody minds.

I mean - this is so obviously the case!

This is only possible in posh densely populated areas. My nearest museum is 40 minutes walk, is very expensive and serves a very wide area. My nearest leisure centre is about 25 minutes walk away. Getting any dentists is hard and I was pleased when I got one only 6 miles away, my DH and kids travel further away.

The reality is we will all need to spend more time in our homes and local areas to reduce carbon emissions. 15 minute cities are just one aspect of this.

The days of gallivanting all over the place for coffees and drinks etc are over. Of course there will be a few circumstances like visiting Aunt Meg where longer travel is required, but these should be restricted and limited.

I think it's convenient for cities, but rural areas won't disappear. Unless they will force people to leave houses etc. Too abstract to happen, IMO, but following thread with interest.

The idea is a good one. In reality we have poor and often expensive public transport in this country. Until that is resolved these schemes are likely to create more problems than they solve.

Cars are being used for work or social contact mostly. People need to do both.
Some people can work from home but socialising from home is not healthy long term. People need social and physical contact.
None of my family lives 15 mins away, or even 30 to meet half way.
I don't think people actually mind using their car a lot less, but it has to be practical and cannot limit freedom to be with loved ones.

@QuertyGirl I agree Oxford needs more public transport. But this proposed scheme doesn’t provide this and it’s precursor scheme, low traffic neighbourhoods, has increased congestion to the point that some public transport like school buses is going to stop as it’s not workable as @jeaux90 points out. I would prefer a congestion charge as at least that raises money that can be used to improve public transport over time. The Oxford schemes reduce public transport and ability to drive - not workable.

Honestly comments like this annoy me because it shows the whole concept is based on well off middle class areas. In my area we have a chip shop, a weatherspoons, a McDonalds, a few take aways, and an Italian restaurant within 15 minutes walk. So that is obviously all I am supposed to go to. No museums, galleries, theatre or cinema, although there is a a small soft play.

Make trains affordable. Make buses truly accessible. My DH refuses to use a bus as he can't cope with arguments about using the wheelchair space. Trains are so expensive we drive as it is cheaper.

How about getting to work? I live in south London and work at Heathrow. I live near a tube but if I'm on an early or late shift there's no tube running. Am I allowed to use a car then?

Some of these conspiracy theories are bizarre.

People calling for, especially post Pandemic when we were more limited in where we could go, better local facilities is not forcing people to only live in one area.

Being able to walk to primary schools, GPs, a local shop, pub/cafe used to be the norm. 15 minutes is a rough guide based on the majority of people being able to walk a mile in 15 minutes.

I'm sure most people would like to have a local shop, post office, bank etc. back in their communities... Rather than having to drive quite a way to get to some of these facilities.

we live in a small town with 1 secondary school - it is a 45 min walk - will then need to build more secondary school so everyone is within 15min?
My husband works 25 miles away

15 min walk from my house gets you a lidl, a B&M, a couple of takeaways, a barber and a small industrial estate - no doctors or opticians or dentists - they are all at the other side of town which is walkable if you have a spare hour or so to walk there and back.

In theory this idea is ok but I hate the emphasis on just walking and cycling. What about elderly or disabled people. Need better busses. Or maybe very affordable taxis? Surely one vehicle being used by people throughout the day, and not really parking much would be ok?