to think people should stop recommending adoption as solution to infertility?

[Coffeefig]

DP and I spent last year TTC before finding out he has male factor fertility issues that will make it impossible for us to conceive without donor sperm. Every single time I try to talk about this with a friend or family or post online to try to get support I'm met with people telling me to adopt as if it's the simplest and most straightforward solution in the world. I have huge respect for people who feel that adoption is the right choice for them, but there seems to be so little understanding of why it might not be the right choice for everyone – and certainly not a solution for infertility. It's posted numerous times on every infertility post on MN – and while I'm sure it's well meaning it seems to 99% of the time come from people who aren't going through infertility struggles themselves and haven't gone through the adoption process (they know a friend who it worked out for etc). I know that for many people it does work out – and that is great, there are obviously many children in need of a loving home. But to just recommend it to anyone going through infertility seems really insensitive and an inappropriate suggestion for both the adults involved and potentially the children. I'm sorry if this is coming across as a bit unhinged but I'm just so, so frustrated by it and need to know if it is actually a really inappropriate thing to say or if I'm being unreasonable as I know my MH is suffering dealing with infertility right now.

I’ve said this before on MN but a nurse in the “bad news” room of EPU once asked if I’d considered adoption.

I have several very close friends who have adopted and they always knew it would be their route, like I always knew it would not be right for me.

The nurse was well meaning enough, but fucking hell.

When I was struggling it was mooted a fair amount. I always saw it as people who were genuinely interested in what we were doing (we got lots of technical questions about infertility treatment too though, thankfully, not many about our sex life) and wanted the best for us. They never pushed it after we’d said we didn’t intend going that route. A couple of the people who asked were adopted themselves and one had a couple of adopted brothers. It felt a bit embarrassing saying no to them, but they were just as uninterested in changing our mind on the matter as anyone else. Some of the others had had their own struggles with fertility and were asking in part because it was an opportunity to discuss their own journey and compare and draw support and validation.

I only talked with people who were actually friends, though. So I’ve always been able to start off by assuming good intent. It might be different if you talk a lot with acquaintances or, say, family you don’t really like that much.

Of course, "natural parenting" is also challenging

Adoption isn’t “unnatural”.

@Jackofallsorts I'm also not saying that adoption isn't rewarding or positive for the right situation / people – but it certainly isn't for everyone. Suggesting flippantly to anyone suffering from infertility that adoption is a solution is minimising the realities of adoption and I don't think is a responsible approach – this is my issue. As mentioned previously, I have huge respect for anyone who does go through the adoption process.

@Jellycatspyjamas I know.. that's why I put it in quotation marks... it's what the PP I was replying to said, and I thought it was a ridiculous thing to say.. sorry if that wasn't clear!

Apologies @Coffeefig i hadn’t noticed you were quoting someone else - the thread moved a bit quickly for me and I missed it.

Say this louder for the people in the back!!!

I was ripped apart for trying to explain this on a different thread a while back. Probably because MN is full of people who like to pick which month they conceive in so not to clash with their brother’s/ cousin’s/ hamster’s birthday 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️, and don’t have a fucking clue how hard infertility is. No one would dream of suggesting adoption to a couple who conceived naturally.

I think people say it because they just don’t know what to say. It’s a shame infertility is such a taboo subject. I think it comes from the right place but it’s the wrong thing to say when all you want is your own biological child.

I couldn’t adopt, the process sounds soul destroying, many children are damaged by past experiences, plus what after loving them for 18yrs they decide to go find their biological family, it’s just another heartbreak.

Praying you get what you want OP x

YANBU, I cringe when people suggest it. As if you don't know adoption exists. I know a two couples who adopted and adore their kids but it wasn't easy. The adoption process was long and emotional and the children had come from difficult family situations and needed a lot of support. It takes a special kind of person to adopt, it's much harder than just having your own and it's not for everyone. It also didn't magically erase their sadness they couldn't have children of their own.

At the same time, I think people just don't know what to say, what words of comfort or hope they can give, because there aren't any.

So sorry to read about your struggles op and yanbu. Agree with everything you have said.

People also talk about donor eggs and sperm and surrogacy as if they're not littered with moral and ethical questions and considerations. I very rarely see anyone give adoption or donor stuff any critical thought and it is never child focused. You want a kid? Do what you have to get one. No consideration for the decisions people make on these people they are creating (start reading about how donor kids feel... There isn't much out there but there is some).

Guaranteed any thread on here started by a woman who wants kids but isn't sure her partner is into it will get dozens of 'just get a sperm donor' replies. Like, have you considered a crossbody bag rather than a backpack? I find it horrifying and fertility clinics themselves are partly to blame - just get an egg donor, of course it'll be fine, you'll love it won't you?

Going through IVF has given me so much pause for thought. If I am ever lucky enough to have a kid I hope the thought I've had to give it will make me a better parent.

Adoption is different. It's not a 'solution' to infertility.

Good luck op

I think there are many shades of grey between ‘total success’ and fail*

I know 5 adoptive families very well. Many many more less so and I’m less qualified to comment, so I won’t.

Of those 5…

1 is going well with whole family thriving
2 marriages have failed as a direct result of adoption
1 has disrupted (*not ‘failed’. The adoptive parents did absolutely everything they could and I would strongly rail against the word ‘fail’ being used to describe their lived experience even if it is in the abstract)
1 is going ok, but the parents would describe the relationships they have with their children as ‘transactional’ at best (their words).

I’m a big advocate of adoption - but it really is different to parenting birth children (not ‘natural parenting’ which is a hideous term that implies adoptive parenting is unnatural).

To pretend otherwise isn’t helpful to anyone, least of all the children who are by far the most important factor. As I’m sure you know given your personal and professional experience.

You’re not being unreasonable at all.

To try to explain it a little though, I imagine the reason people say things like, ‘have you considered adoption’, is because most people’s immediate impulse when hearing about someone else’s awful situation is to try to offer solutions or advice, or try to ‘solve’ the problem, rather than offering a listening ear and empathy.

I’m sure everyone will have experienced this kind of response many times and been really frustrated when you try to tell a friend / parent / colleague about a difficult situation and they immediately start saying why don’t you try this, have you considered that? When all you want is for them to say, that sounds really tough, let me make you some tea. Giving advice / solutions instead of empathy is a very common way of reacting to hearing difficult things though, especially among the English!

Sorry, let me qualify as I appreciate some have a different experience.

*can be different to parenting birth children.

I completely agree with you. I have been ttc our first baby for over 5 years. We have had 4 naturally conceived pregnancy losses and 2 ivf pregnancy losses. It's nearly destroyed my mental health and we just reached a point last year where we couldn't do it any more. So we took a break and its been the best thing for us.

I've thought a lot about adoption over the years and we've come to the conclusion it's not for us. I have a friend who adopted after infertility (but no interventions or treatment) and she's desperate for us to adopt. It was right for them. But it's not for us. The trauma we've experienced has been so damaging, I cannot face putting us through the process after years going through the infertility and loss. The uncertainty and the unknowns are just too much. I've lived in that space for too long.

Wishing you the best xx

I'm so sorry about your fertility problems. I don't have any experience of infertility but I know that adoption isn't the "easy solution" that some people seem to think.

@Particularprick I feel as if I could have written this! I’ve done a lot of research into donor sperm and for all the reasons you’ve mentioned, I don’t think it’s for us either. Like you say, so much about infertility seems to be about what the adult wants rather than what might be best for any potential child.

I think “it is different” is fair enough, it is different. My kids had a family before me, there are different people they also knew as “mum and dad”, that doesn’t go away and needs consideration and support.

Daily life is different, what they need from me and the strategies I adopt in my parenting are different at times. What isn’t different is the love and commitment, the care and the relationship - they are my own children.

Its a unique way of creating a family, but from the outside looking in I’m sure we’re just feeling our way like most other parents.

Hamster's birthday

It's like those videos where a bloke goes round pro life protests and goes up to people holding up 'Adopt don't abort!' signs. He asks the protestors if they have kids and how many of them are adopted. No prizes for guessing what they say. 'Oh I have my own children, they're not adopted.' Twats!

Thank you to everyone (most) people who replied to this. I’ve had a truly awful day and knowing I’m not alone has made me feel so much better ❤️

We have children attend the nursery who are with local Foster carers, some looking to be adopted in the longer term. Whilst many are lovely children the vast majority are very damaged children who will need a lot of support - probably the rest of their childhood and beyond- from the families who eventually adopt them. Someone suffering fertility issues wants a child of their own, to have a normal family life with and not deal with trauma and emotional issues. Adoption isn't an easy solution.

Yanbu, it’s so pointless and insulting, and invalidating. If someone is telling you about their infertility, just empathise, say that sounds awful, ask if they want to talk more about it, but don’t offer “solutions’.

Honestly @Tumbleweed101 you really can’t see how what you say might be deeply hurtful both to adopters and adoptees? Let he break it down for you:-

• “whilst many are lovely, the vast majority are damaged children”. Children who have experienced significant harm through trauma are also lovely children, not damaged goods.
• ”someone suffering infertility wants a child of their own”. Adopted children are their parents “own” children. My children are my own children.
• ”to have a normal family life” Adoptive families have very normal family lives, most aren’t dealing with trauma every minute of every day. I have a much more “normal” family life than my close friend whose birth child has profound disabilities.
• ”and not deal with trauma and emotional issues” Best not have children at all then given the rates of poor mental health in children and young people, not to mention the high prevalence of trauma in the general population.

People don’t need to consider adoption, it’s not for everyone at all but the narrative of “damaged” children and abnormal family life is offensive and deeply othering of a very vulnerable population of children.

Jesus Christ…

@QueenCamilla sorry I took this sentence from your first post I hope your partner will "come round" in time and save you unnecessary suffering to mean OP's DH should just come round to donor sperm as if it were an easy thing to do.

I agree that head burying is no good in terms of not even investigating what the issues are.

@Coffeefig sorry to hear that Dr Ramsay is unwell but hope your DH can be persuaded to have a consultation with someone recommended (perhaps he'd rather go alone?)

Some of the people persisting to say that suggesting adoption is appropriate are just ignoring the raw pain of OP and many other posters. And some comments about adopted children and their families are also horrible.

I know a few families who have adopted, and know enough about the process to know it is not for us.

My parents had friends who adopted both their children over 50 years ago, it was totally different then, they adopted babies of schoolgirls both times & got them when they were just over 6 weeks old. I can remember them telling me that once they were accepted they waited for a letter, turned up on the day at a mother & baby home & walked out 15 minutes later with a baby. There are fewer children up for adoption now due to improved contraception & the acceptance of single mothers. When I was going through fertility problems it was the one thing I was clear on, there was no way I could have wanted to adopt, I would rather have remained childless.