to think people should stop recommending adoption as solution to infertility?

[Coffeefig]

DP and I spent last year TTC before finding out he has male factor fertility issues that will make it impossible for us to conceive without donor sperm. Every single time I try to talk about this with a friend or family or post online to try to get support I'm met with people telling me to adopt as if it's the simplest and most straightforward solution in the world. I have huge respect for people who feel that adoption is the right choice for them, but there seems to be so little understanding of why it might not be the right choice for everyone – and certainly not a solution for infertility. It's posted numerous times on every infertility post on MN – and while I'm sure it's well meaning it seems to 99% of the time come from people who aren't going through infertility struggles themselves and haven't gone through the adoption process (they know a friend who it worked out for etc). I know that for many people it does work out – and that is great, there are obviously many children in need of a loving home. But to just recommend it to anyone going through infertility seems really insensitive and an inappropriate suggestion for both the adults involved and potentially the children. I'm sorry if this is coming across as a bit unhinged but I'm just so, so frustrated by it and need to know if it is actually a really inappropriate thing to say or if I'm being unreasonable as I know my MH is suffering dealing with infertility right now.

I think a lot of people think they have to say something & adoption is just the first morally acceptable option that pops into their heads.

I don't think it's intended to annoy you, but I'd guess you must be talking about not being able to naturally conceive with your partner with them & they feel they are supposed to respond to whatever you have said to them.

I would honestly be concerned as your OH has reservations about considering bringing a child into the world which was not his, but was yours.

This is asking him to take on what would be another mans child, while you get the one you want & he really needs to be on board before you look at that sort of option.

@gogohmm honestly, I'd prefer that they just empathise and say 'wow, that's really shitty'. I don't need them to offer 'solutions' – I've driven myself crazy trying to find 'solutions'. I'm glad it's worked out for your friends. But, after 8 years, it sounds like they came to that understanding that adoption was something they wanted to do on their own terms – not because someone 'well meaning' suggested it to them as a 'solution' to their infertility.

@Brokendaughter yes, obviously he would have to be on board with any decision to bring a child into the world / our relationship... I'm not sure why this is relevant to my OP or any of my previous messages. I haven't ever mentioned doing something like donor sperm without my DP being fully on board??

@MissMaple82 No. I absolutely do not feel guilty for not adopting – what a ridiculous and thoughtless thing to suggest. If anything, I think I would feel guilty if I saw adoption as a 'simple solution' to infertility... these are children with their own myriad issues and challenges, not a bandaid for the pain of my infertility.

I disagree. Do you actually know any adopted children personally? Because I know 4 adopted children. All adopted relatively young, youngest being 16 months and they are lovely children. That's what's wrong with this situation, people are too quick to write these children off as damaged and no good! Yes, some are obviously dealing with trauma, but children are resilient and when in the correct, and loving environment, they thrive.

@HeyMona
Who mentioned "walk in the park or donor eggs"?

If OPs partner doesn't come round to the full investigations of own sperm or donor sperm, then the next option is for the OP to start a family with someone else. No "walk in the park", just the reality of it all.

I left a partner who wanted to have children with me. Despite his protestations of me leaving. I'm not selfish enough to make final decisions on someone's family plans.

Whilst I sympathise with your situation it's human nature to want to offer a positive solution. I've recently had a holiday booking fall through and am currently trying to sort alternative accommodation. It's driving me mad the amount of 'helpful' suggestions I'm getting that are nothing like the holiday I planned. No, I do not want to stay in a hotel, I want an apartment with a bath. That's what I planned, that's what I want. If I can get irate about this I'm sure it must be soooo frustrating for you....and upsetting.

I hope this doesn't sound insensitive but who are you sharing this with and why? If it's your Mum, best friend, or anyone you're close to I'd expect them to understand the score by now, so your situation and your feelings....but if it's Jayne in accounts....what did you want her to say. Imagine if she said "and your telling me this because....?".

Maybe we need more information out there about infertility in general. I know 2 people that have adopted. One family took on a 2 year old then adopted him. The next child went back into care because his needs were too much. A seconf older single woman adopted a 3 year old. Turns out he has much more complex needs than she was originally told. She loves him and he's staying but I suspect she would make different decisions if she could go back. I don't know or know of anyone my age or younger that has adopted a baby.

I agree. I have secondary infertility (over 5 years of ivf, miscarriages and surgeries) and lately I've had a flurry of people suggest we "just use a surrogate" like it's that easy and not a big deal. I think people just run through options in their head and blurt them out without thinking them through properly.

Sorry, must have misread your post, I thought you meant you were telling people that bit, which might leave people struggling for how to respond.

@MissMaple82 I'm not "writing these children off as damaged and no good" – and it's hugely offensive that you take the stance that anyone who doesn't feel that adoption is for them has this attitude. Have you adopted? Why not?

I am making an informed decision that myself and DP (for numerous reasons, none of which I need to go into with you) are not the right fit to adopt children. And yes, I know several adopted children personally – some of which have worked out wonderfully and others that have been beyond challenging and probably needed to be in different adoptive environments that could have offered different kinds of support.

100% agree, it's so offensive. TTC for your own child and adoption are 2 completely different things. Why it is brought up in conversation over infertility is bizarre.

*YANBU.

The level of ignorance is staggering. People honestly think that lots of the children up for adoption in this country are sweet, lovely babies.

They are not. There are fuck all sweet lovely babies.

Instead there are countless thousands of children of various ages, but mostly over 3, from horrifically damaging traumatic backgrounds, who've had an awful start in life and who are extremely likely to have a range of health, developmental and psychological issues. These children need seriously experienced, resilient parents who are willing to fight for the help these children need (a full time job in itself and a shit one), and then work with the army of specialists that these children need. Social workers, psychologists, the works. The sort of people who are good at this are NOT necessarily a young couple still hoping for a sweet lovely baby. They have every right to hope for a baby of their own... and it's such a long road from there, to being ready and able to take on a foster child (or children) with a view to adopting them. You're not raising a baby, you're helping a child through the care system. And let's be brutally honest, much of the time these children aren't going to have sterling life outcomes no matter what you do, because they have been so damaged by the horrible things life threw at them, and the Foetal Alcohol Syndrome and other serious health problems that are distressingly common.

The Venn diagram of "children up for adoption" and "infertile couples" has bugger all crossover if you ask me.*

This. Put more eloquently than I could!

I don’t know if you’re asking me or the person I quoted. But yes I do, I know 3
families with adopted children and all 3 of them have had a myriad of challenges due to the backgrounds of the children they adopted. These children are very much loved and have lovely homes now but some of the issues they faced as very young children are giving them probably life long issues and the parenting has been extremely difficult. Im
not saying every adoption is like that but it’s realistic to say a lot are. As I said before, it’s undoubtedly abortion related isn’t it. Most unwanted pregnancies are ended before birth so a huge amount of children waiting to be adopted have been removed from their birth families due to neglect, abuse, alcohol, drugs etc. whereas years ago before abortion was routine, adoption may well have been an easier option for prospective adoptve parents who could adopt a newborn who had particular issues other than being unwanted

@JudgeRudy In my real life, I've shared with my mum, sister, and a few very close girlfriends – all but one has suggested adoption. I'm certainly not just blurting out to Jane in Accounts (and would totally understand someone I'm not very close to not knowing what to say!!) It also seems to be a very common response on MN on posts about infertility.. Your friends' experiences with adoption seem to align with a lot of the experiences I have read about – some work out perfectly well, but so many children have very complex needs and need to be in environments with the knowledge, experience, and ability to support those needs (and sadly it's doesn't seem that this is always identified beforehand)..

I think that any time you have a conversation with people about medical issues, they are going to talk about those medical issues with the knowledge they have. Which may not be a lot.

It can result in uncomfortable conversations, or awkward ones. Or sometimes weird ones. But I think it's something about how people converse that to some extent you just have to accept. If an issue is brought into the conversation people can only say things in terms of what they know, have experienced, or feel. And that may be a lot different than what you know, have experienced, or feel.

With something like a broken toe it won't matter much, with something more emotional, it's probably worth thinking about whether you'd be better off to avoid bringing it up. Which has it's own trade-offs but might be what you prefer in the end.

I also think, adoption is the solution for some people, so it's not surprising people bring it up.

I agree with you! People seem to think there are hordes of fresh babies ready to pick up and start an idyllic life with.

No thought to why those babies (and children and teens!) are there in the first place, their trauma, the ongoing support, the possibility of contact with blood relatives, what type of people those blood relatives are, the complicated feelings the child might have towards their adoptive parents..

This is a stunning example of the exact kind of self-absorbed smug tripe OP is talking about.

It’s wildly inappropriate - as though any prospective parent struggling with infertility hasn’t already thought about it.

And it’s almost always suggested by people who either don’t want biological children, or already have them; but who have never seriously considered adoption themselves (because adoption’s a great idea as long as it’s done by someone else).

From an adoptive parent who didn’t try for biological children first.

honestly, I'd prefer that they just empathise and say 'wow, that's really shitty'. I don't need them to offer 'solutions'

If you speak to someone about a problem, chances are they’re going to try and come up with solutions.

I wish MNers would say at the beginning - please don’t give me any advice or solutions as I don’t want any and I just want to vent.

It’s the same when someone starts a thread about having no money and then gets annoyed when someone says get a second job or check the benefit calculator etc.

If I don’t want advice or solutions then I just don’t tell people my problem.
Or in your situation you can just vent to your partner or someone who you know has been through the same thing.

As you say, people are trying to be helpful.
If you don’t put them in that situation in the first place then you can’t get offended by them trying to help.

@OriginalUsername2 Yes! These are all things that I don't think DP and I are equipped to deal with. And it's just so unbelievably patronising when someone goes 'Oh, but why don't you just adopt??' and especially when it's phrased as "if you really want a baby, why don't you just adopt"... as if it's the same thing and by not feeling equipped to adopt it somehow minimises my desire to have a child and build a family..

YANBU. It’s so patronising. Usually said by the same people who scold infertile women struggling with their friends’ pregnancies for “ruining their joy”. The older I get, the more I realise how smug a lot of mums are towards childless women.

We did look at adoption following unsuccessful fertility treatment. I have had to tell so many people that the kids who, sadly, need a loving, proper home are not babies. But much older, having been left with parents unable or unwilling to care for them properly, often subjecting them to vile abuse and neglect. Because social work practice is to not remove kids, but to try to support parents....even when it is glaringly obvious that the parents cannot do it.
I was not prepared for the heartache of a child I had grown to love suffering the aftermath of that.

@fitzwilliamdarcy This. As if they would have dealt with infertility so much better and would be jumping for joy at news of yet another friend's pregnancy... it's just insulting. Of course I know that my friends deserve happiness and joy when they're pregnant. It doesn't mean it's any easier or that makes my pain any less.

It's like I don't even know how to navigate the world any more. I had so much work to do today and spent two hours crying in bed and haven't even looked at anything work related. I'm really struggling.

So true. I am 47 and I have a number of friends who are childless by choice. Im enormously proud of them for not giving into societal pressure and doing something they knew wouldn’t make them happy. I was expected to have kids, so I did. I never considered any other option. Be a parent or don’t, and if you do then do it how you want to. Screw other people’s expectations or judgments.