Are mums more attached to their babies than dads?

[Animallover87]

Do mums love/get more attached to their babies than dads do?

The reason I ask is because my DH and I are expecting our first baby in August. A few weeks ago I posted asking if mumsnet thought it would be OK for me to leave baby with my mum for 2 nights and take DH to Paris for his 40th. The response was unanimously no. They said I wouldn't feel ready, it was too young etc, fair enough. Then there was the thread yesterday where the poster wanted to go on her hen do to a lodge 5 mins away from her house. Again, the response was largely - don't go, you won't feel ready.

Which got me wondering... my DH has to go back to work for long days 2 weeks after our baby is born. It may involve some overnight stays sometimes. No-one will bat an eyelid at this and obviously DH will miss us but it's not a big deal. My friends partner had to work away for 3 weeks at a time when their baby was born and again, that's just his job.

Why is it so much harder for mums to leave the babies? My baby won't be breastfed and when DH is here he will do more than his fair share. He is ecstatic about becoming a dad and I know he will love our baby more than anything.

But why am I told that I won't be ready and desperately won't want to leave them for a night or 2? Hope the question makes sense, I wonder what the difference seems to be between mums and dads and the attachment to their babies.

“The reason “baby needs mum” is because either the mum is a control freak who doesn’t let anyone - including her husband - near her baby, or because dad is lazy and doesn’t help. Speaking about wider society, not specifics.”

saying “wider society, not specifics” doesn’t let you off the hook - you are literally talking specifics there

what I meant is that men have historically been brought up seeing that there is no need for them to be involved parents, so they don’t do their “fair share” in the early days, which leads mothers to feel like they can’t trust their partners to do parenting. When in actual fact, if mothers just left baby with dad without extensive lists on how to do every single little task, they’d manage. It’s all to do with ingrained attitudes of “women know best” and “men don’t know how to do …” that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Control freak was maybe the wrong choice of phrase - I tried to correct myself with the last sentence but I’m typing one handed because I’m holding baby.

I was like you. Didn't see problem and found it so unfair when women were berated for wanting to leave their babies for a night out or whatever when men can swan off whenever .

Then I frikking cried on the way to tesco because we left DD home with my mum. Stupid hormones.

Denying that men are as caring, loving and committed as women is maybe for your wellbeing, I'm thinking of the baby and how important the love of two parents is. We should be promoting the bond between babies and both parents if the baby is fortunate enough to have two parents there for them.

My babies responded to and bonded with their fathers as much as with me but then I wasn't one of those mothers who felt the need to insist otherwise.

Fair enough.

I struggled breastfeeding and only tried because of external pressure. It did not work for me, (I once pumped non-stop for the duration of the Titanic movie I was watching and got less than 50 mls out). and I think contributed to my feelings fo distress. I used to start sobbing when DS woke up from a nap as I knew I 'had' to try again. I honestly wish I had never bothered and just went ff from the start.

The pressure at the time was amazing. My HV kept writing in her notes 'exclusively breastfed' when i kept telling her I was nowehere close and was formula feeding. I still am perplexed by that.

@JustAnotherManicNameChange 🤣🤣🤣 its just so hard to imagine! DH is much more emotional than me, he cried at the 12 week scan and I didn't 😅

@ComeTheSpringLobelia I feel like there's such a stigma. My midwife asked me at my 10 week appointment and she said as long as baby was being fed she didn't care! I was relieved she respected my choice and didn't try to change my mind.

You have put it well. Four children, never left a list for DH as I rightly assumed he knew how to care for his own child.

I formula fed both of mine and never had anything but support. The only annoying thing is they put me in a room with breastfeeding mothers with my eldest and they had a lactation consultant in the room all frigging night helping them breastfeed - mybaby was asleep and I could t sleep because they had the lights on and were chatting. It’s a great service that they have, but would probably be more useful if they put the breastfeeding mothers together so that bottle feeding mothers could sleep and therefore more breastfeeding mothers could get help!

I really hope the stigma is changing. Mine is 13 now.

Sorry- hope I am not derailing the thread either!

One of the joys of MN though is (despite the sometimes 'robust' discussion) is that you get so many views. That is one reason why I always chime in to say 'I found this hard or that hard' because IRL (in my experience) people are sometimes less willing to admit they struggle. At least in the baby and toddler groups I went to. Literally everyone seemed to consider parenthood a breeze and I was on the floor.

I was brought up with a really involved dad too, so my frame of reference was that dads can do anything mums can do (beyond breastfeeding) so I guess I never even thought to make a list?
My dad - who is in his 60s - babysat my kids alone if my mum was at work, from really early on. And I never left him a list either 😂

I'm gonna say generally yes tbh.

Yes, exactly right. My DH was SAHD to 4 DC from 6 weeks on. And from birth to prior to that we split the baby/child care as evenly as possible although he did a bit more as I was recovering from childbirth. Never had to show him anything, and he was an adopted only child raised by his grandmother with zero baby experience and I’d had tons of baby experience. I would give him verbal tips and suggestions based on my experience with siblings and babysitting, but he worked out what our DCs individually liked and responded to all on his own.

He even developed a “baby boot camp” method of strengthening play exercises to gradually hit milestones of lift themselves, roll over, sit up, crawl…etc. Mums call it belly time, he called it baby boot camp. It was adorable. They would kick their legs, smile and get all excited when he would do his version of belly time play.

Men should be encouraged to break free from the lifetime of social conditioning.

Everyone is different, just don't let people question what you and your partner feel is right for your baby unless you are endangering them. Breastfeeding is great if it works out but if it isn't what you want or you struggle with it then that's great too. Aren't we lucky that we have clean water, excellent feeding equipment and baby milk that is safe and nutritious. Looking at my GC now I can't even remember which ones were breast and which were bottle or how long breastfeeding went on. The thing babies need most is love and that should be available to them all, breast fed, bottle fed, left with someone trusted overnight or in a carrier with mum 24/7.

I have six GC, one has never had a sleep over, one had their first sleepover at 6 weeks, the others all fall somewhere in between. I put no pressure on, it was up to the parents, some felt they needed or wanted an overnight break and I was happy to help, some didn't feel ready or didn't feel the need and I was happy for them. They wouldn't give you any clue if they'd been left for the first time at 5 weeks or 5 months or 5 years.

Try not to worry about it now, when the time comes you will know what's right for you.

I think the bonding/control freak stuff is neither here nor there. If someone can’t tell the difference between one parent going on an obligatory work trip, leaving the other parent behind with the baby, and whether or not you choose to both go for an optional leisure break, then it’s a pointless discussion. The decisions people make about the former will be very different from those about the latter, on an individual basis (I have no opinion on whether mothers or fathers leave the baby overnight with anyone else, I just don’t care, I did what was right for my babies and have no opinion on others). The mother/father being more or less bonded is a red herring, and feels like an attempt at division whether intended or not.

The problem is, society is set up to let them fail.

Often, the changing table is in the ladies toilet.

Lots of baby classes are called “mums and babies” which I totally get if it’s postnatal fitness or something, but this was for things like baby massage, and toddler groups.

Nappy bags are generally feminine in their design - either handbag style, or the rucksack ones are so small they don’t fit on an average male frame - although admittedly there is more choice now than when my eldest was born. Now my partner felt totally comfortable carrying a female looking bag, but the full point is that society is set up to assume men won’t be the ones carrying the bag.

pushchair handles are generally at a height that is more comfortable for a smaller framed person - although admittedly more were adjustable when buying a pram for my youngest than my eldest (large age gap)

Doctors surgeries have asked my partner if I’m at work when he has taken the kids to the doctors.

The school automatically phone me rather than my partner if my daughter isn’t well, despite him being the primary contact.

Pfft, the world is mostly set up for an unencumbered adult male to get about, I couldn’t care less if some limited items are actually designed for the average woman. A man can just crack on even if it is a bit embarrassing for him or uncomfortable, just like women do. As though going around with children is easy for women and you aren’t constantly being criticised for taking up space with your buggy. Absolutely zero energy to get sympathetic about a man complaining about it being awkward pushing a buggy that’s designed for a smaller woman or carrying a flowery nappy bag. If that’s his excuse for not getting involved then it’s pathetic.

There is not biological reason for babies to have a stronger attachment to their mam, but we live in a patriachal society that is structured in a way that encourages it.

Everything from kicking dad's out of the hospital after the baby is born (so that mum is already the expert parent by the time they get home) to women being paid less so they are more likely to take time off to care, for sick days etc. All the messages we internalise about mum being the main parent. They all mean that mums do more care, so they become more attached.

Sorry off topic, but ... and so what? Society in general is set up for a white male, and yet still we all survive and some even thrive ...

I think any baby will be fine with their primary care giver, whoever that may be and will bond the most with that person. In saying that, of course a baby is most likely to bond the most with their birth mother, having already bonded for 9 months, as someone else said childbirth is primal, breastfeeding is too. Your body does all these amazing things to care for your baby, both physically and mentally. And it's also brutal on the mother, and perhaps that's also why some of that bond and motherly instinct comes from too. I can truly say that motherhood has changed me, not even necessarily for the best (for me), but I definitely changed. Maybe it's knowing that I am entirely responsible for this little being that I created and have nutured. Yes my DH is too, but I really don't think it's the same. I don't even know why I don't, it just isn't.

It is proving the exact opposite of what you think - it’s patriarchal that these things are set up for women - it shows that society intends that these things will be used predominantly for women, women should know their place (doing childcare rather than in the workplace)

By making childcare items equally accessible for both genders, it puts the expectation on men to “do their share” and therefore makes it easier for women to leave men to “do their share” whilst they do things like further their career.

Specifically speaking about the examples of baby changing tables being in the ladies toilets - in those instances, my partner goes into the ladies toilets (after letting a staff member know he will be doing so to change our child) - but it was very isolating for him as a SAHD that most of the clubs available were not inviting. How are we going to force men to “do more” if we continually tell them parenting is for women?

@CherLloydbyCherLloyd

“The problem is, society is set up to let them fail.”
Yes, agree society has thrown significant barriers up against gender nonconforming fathers that are doing the traditional mother role. It does cause failures in too many cases.

“Often, the changing table is in the ladies toilet.” This was definitely true for my DH. Nowadays there are more private unisex family or changing room so fathers can have access to a changing table. The way my DH got around this was a roll up changing mat and he’d usually change them in the boot of the car. It meant walking back outside the shops or back to the car park…but needs must. Although by the 3rd baby, he’d just pick a park bench or discreetly use a bench seat in a restaurant booth, or a bench in a less busy area of a shopping centre. He was very fast at nappy changes by then and didn’t care about what random passers-by might mutter.

“Lots of baby classes are called “mums and babies” Very true, in fact my DH went to various advertised baby and toddler play groups that didn’t have ‘mum &’ in the name and was turned away in some cases, but there are groups out there that do accept SAHDs and he found one at a local church and an informal one at the local play park. He and other SAHDs on one base had their own play group as well. They called it the OHC (Officers Husbands Club) making fun of the traditional OWC (Officers wives club)

“Nappy bags are generally feminine in their design -” My DH is of opinion a bag is a bag and he simply bought a back pack from an outdoors shop to use as a nappy bag.

“pushchair handles are generally at a height that is more comfortable for a smaller framed person” also true, so DH had a sling and baby Bjorn and simply carried them that way. Being a man, he could carry baby plus back pack nappy bag easily and have his hands free for the older toddlers. He also modified a cheap push chair by adding bigger wheels and a handle bar extension for when they were 2+ and too big to carry but too small to walk very far.

“Doctors surgeries have asked my partner if I’m at work when he has taken the kids to the doctors.” haven’t had this that I know of….have to ask DH if this happened to him too.

“The school automatically phone me rather than my partner if my daughter isn’t well, despite him being the primary contact.” God, yes had this. Although I never changed my surname, so a few schools when we told them to list him as primary contact looked at his surname matching the DCs surname and then seeing mine was different assumed I was a girlfriend and he was a single dad. So since they assumed I wasn’t the DCs actual mother, they’d call him first. We let them assume that as it suited us. By the time they realised I was the DCs mother, they’d established the habit to call him first. The kids would also tell the school nurse “call my dad to come get me” as well.

Exactly. These things are directly damaging women, and some people seem to not see that by making parenting equally accessible to mums AND dads, they are actually allowing the financial playing field to be evened out a little.

My partner is my daughters primary emergency contact, yet they automatically phone me. If my partner is home, I don’t even offer to contact him for them, I simply ask them to call the primary contact (we have never been in a position where a real emergency occurred - obviously I would not be deliberately awkward if she was hurt or badly unwell) - when he is at work, it’s still easier for him to be the one to leave work and go get her, but there is an assumption that the woman has a job where she can just leave, or is at home, and the man is doing an important job he can’t leave.

Exactly right. It’s in everything and self-perpetuates generation after generation.

Oh there was a dads club in our area - it was the only one to welcome dads. It was on a Saturday morning, because obviously big important men only have that small window of time that they could take their children out - they are doing big important man jobs all week, aren’t they?

As a working mum, I wanted to take my daughter to a class. Guess how many weekend clubs for mums there were? None. Because obviously women are going to give up or reduce their work to look after their children, so they can go midweek.