Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to refuse to go on a business trip to Dubai

313 replies

ElizaDav · 12/02/2023 01:48

I have been asked to provide my expertise on a product development project. Not part of my main responsibilities but an interesting opportunity and cool way to get more exposure in the organisation. Part of it will entail participation in a 4 day meeting with global colleagues on Dubai. Am an out and proud lesbian and definitely not a place I want to go to. Would it look bad if I refuse? Could I suggest they have the meeting in the UK (where we are HQed) or another country? I feel angry that i have been put in a position where i have to choose between career development and travelling to a homophobic and misogynistic country. Our organisation is always going on about diversity inclusion etc yet men making decisions that we should all meet in Dubai just smacks of institutional homophobia and misogyny. Arrghhh...

OP posts:
Itstheway · 12/02/2023 01:51

refuse!! They can’t force you, could you join remotely? I’m straight but going to Dubai would be my worst nightmare

BoxOfCats · 12/02/2023 01:51

I think it's a fair request on the basis that you would not feel safe there. How do you think they would respond?

mackthepony · 12/02/2023 01:58

No-one needs to go to Dubai, awful place

piggijg · 12/02/2023 02:08

The only way you wouldn't be safe is if you decide to have sex with a woman on your work trip or declare your sexuality rather loudly. Either way it would rather strange for a work trip really. I get not wanting to go to Dubai but I can't see how the risk assessment would go well really...I don't believe in restricting a woman's right to an abortion....but I wouldn't refuse to go on a work trip to Texas.

Clouds3898 · 12/02/2023 02:10

I mean I don't like Dubai either but I've travelled there as a lone woman for work and it's always been absolutely fine. The hotels are all very generic international business hotel type places and everyone gets Ubers everywhere. So you can just stick to the hotel and the office and not really bother with the place
Make a stand on principle if you like by all means but I think in practical terms you would be absolutely fine if you did go.

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 02:13

I thought I'd hate Dubai but I loved it. Go and represent yourself and your sexuality. I'd think that would the best protest you could do.

PeanutButterSmoothie · 12/02/2023 02:18

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 02:13

I thought I'd hate Dubai but I loved it. Go and represent yourself and your sexuality. I'd think that would the best protest you could do.

I don't think it's a great idea making a protest in a place like Dubai tbh.

It's be like scoring some weed and walking down the street puffing a massive joint to promote legalisation. You might end up being sentenced to 20 years in jail or something.

MrsTerryPratchett · 12/02/2023 02:21

They're asking you to go somewhere that makes you a criminal. Fine to refuse. And say why. But be all 'curious' about the choice. Make them say why it's OK.

lifeinthehills · 12/02/2023 02:23

PeanutButterSmoothie · 12/02/2023 02:18

I don't think it's a great idea making a protest in a place like Dubai tbh.

It's be like scoring some weed and walking down the street puffing a massive joint to promote legalisation. You might end up being sentenced to 20 years in jail or something.

Show quote history

My thoughts exactly @PeanutButterSmoothie

Ponderingwindow · 12/02/2023 02:26

yes, you could hide who you are. You can’t hide the fact that you are female. Ask work what happens if you are sexually assaulted during your business trip?

sashh · 12/02/2023 02:26

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 02:13

I thought I'd hate Dubai but I loved it. Go and represent yourself and your sexuality. I'd think that would the best protest you could do.

What a stupid post.

OP

I'd frame it as 'As an organisation we are proud of our inclusiveness, Dubai is not an inclusive place, particularly for me. Having meetings in a country with such poor human rights tarnishes this company's claims to inclusivity.

GoodChat · 12/02/2023 02:26

piggijg · 12/02/2023 02:08

The only way you wouldn't be safe is if you decide to have sex with a woman on your work trip or declare your sexuality rather loudly. Either way it would rather strange for a work trip really. I get not wanting to go to Dubai but I can't see how the risk assessment would go well really...I don't believe in restricting a woman's right to an abortion....but I wouldn't refuse to go on a work trip to Texas.

Can your appearance not 'loudly declare your sexuality' to a bigot, though?

It's not known for being the most tolerant of places.

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 02:28

PeanutButterSmoothie · 12/02/2023 02:18

I don't think it's a great idea making a protest in a place like Dubai tbh.

It's be like scoring some weed and walking down the street puffing a massive joint to promote legalisation. You might end up being sentenced to 20 years in jail or something.

Show quote history

I don't mean literally carrying out a protest! Lol. I mean just that fact that she's "an out and proud lesbian" performing outstanding work is a sock in the eye to any colleagues who are discriminatory. And not something they can argue with. That's her protest. Showing that gay people are totally the equal to, and sometimes the superior to, anyone else.

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 02:29

sashh · 12/02/2023 02:26

What a stupid post.

OP

I'd frame it as 'As an organisation we are proud of our inclusiveness, Dubai is not an inclusive place, particularly for me. Having meetings in a country with such poor human rights tarnishes this company's claims to inclusivity.

Show quote history

Why is it stupid?

BarrelOfOtters · 12/02/2023 02:29

pro unreasonable of you not to go. It’s work.

MrsDS · 12/02/2023 02:29

They can ask but I wouldn’t go. Saying this as a married straight woman. Their laws against women, lgbtq are offensive. I would have no trust and quiet frankly no desire.

MrsDS · 12/02/2023 02:35

Why shouldn’t she have sex with a woman if she takes her fancy? Plenty of men do that on work trips ! Female’s as well.

StrawHatOnTheParcelShelf · 12/02/2023 02:38

MrsDS · 12/02/2023 02:35

Why shouldn’t she have sex with a woman if she takes her fancy? Plenty of men do that on work trips ! Female’s as well.

That would also be illegal in Dubai, unless the straight couple is married.

Islandofhell · 12/02/2023 02:38

It's a nasty shitehole . Perfectly reasonable of you not to go,OP.

allswellthatends · 12/02/2023 02:42

I wouldn't go anywhere in that region, just because I'm female, not even lesbian. Take a stand, if you feel your job affords it. Noblesse oblige: do you know that idea? Those of us who can risk do it for those who can't yet risk saying no. No, no, no.

But do keep documents proving the whole incident. Just in case five years down the line someone holds it against you. I don't even mean you should do it now if you think they WILL hold it down the line. But even if they don't now, keep a record of all the emails.

And please say no.

georgarina · 12/02/2023 02:46

I think it would be a great idea to raise this. Not only would you be unsafe, the organisers need to realise this before making arrangements. We shouldn't have to carry on and put ourselves at risk/go places where we are treated as second-class citizens.

ChampagneLassie · 12/02/2023 02:48

I think this would be brave of you to raise but I think you should. If your organisation really wants to be inclusive they need to walk the walk. I'd hope that this just hadn't occurred to the as an issue until you raise and I presume Dubai was chosen for ease of travel for all. I hope they do the right thing which could be giving it due consideration but still using Dubai for logistical reasons and explaining that. I think it's only a, problem if they do not consider your concerns seriously

MrsDS · 12/02/2023 02:48

StrawHatOnTheParcelShelf · 12/02/2023 02:38

That would also be illegal in Dubai, unless the straight couple is married.

Show quote history

Except most Men get away with it! I wouldn’t travel to there even with my husband, you literally couldn’t pay me to do so.

SnackyOnassis · 12/02/2023 02:55

I wouldn't go. Going would mean you'd have to mask who you are and an inclusive workplace should never ask you to do that. Whether it's something they haven't considered about Dubai or it's something they have taken into account and chosen to ignore, being quite open about the reason it's not safe to ask you to travel there is important and hopefully will lead to a big 'oh we didn't even think of that' head smack moment for your company.
As a PP suggested, don't go in on the offensive, just ask (in writing) quite neutrally why it needs to be in Dubai and pointing out that the region's laws makes you a criminal the second you arrive there, so while you would love to lend your expertise, you can't do it from this country. Hopefully they'll be mortified and rearrange it, and consider these decisions better in future.
If not, their response will give you an insight into the actual values of the company and you can do as you will with that information when it comes to considering your future career there.

MistyRock · 12/02/2023 03:03

piggijg · 12/02/2023 02:08

The only way you wouldn't be safe is if you decide to have sex with a woman on your work trip or declare your sexuality rather loudly. Either way it would rather strange for a work trip really. I get not wanting to go to Dubai but I can't see how the risk assessment would go well really...I don't believe in restricting a woman's right to an abortion....but I wouldn't refuse to go on a work trip to Texas.

This. I understand the point you're making but really the risk to yourself is nonexistent.