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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to refuse to go on a business trip to Dubai

313 replies

ElizaDav · 12/02/2023 01:48

I have been asked to provide my expertise on a product development project. Not part of my main responsibilities but an interesting opportunity and cool way to get more exposure in the organisation. Part of it will entail participation in a 4 day meeting with global colleagues on Dubai. Am an out and proud lesbian and definitely not a place I want to go to. Would it look bad if I refuse? Could I suggest they have the meeting in the UK (where we are HQed) or another country? I feel angry that i have been put in a position where i have to choose between career development and travelling to a homophobic and misogynistic country. Our organisation is always going on about diversity inclusion etc yet men making decisions that we should all meet in Dubai just smacks of institutional homophobia and misogyny. Arrghhh...

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 12/02/2023 06:58

Good plan Simon!

Turangawaewae · 12/02/2023 06:58

This has put me off travelling to the whole region:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/doha-airport-australia-women-searched-baby-qatar-b1318055.html

It seems to me that it's okay if it's okay. But if something goes wrong, things can go very very wrong.

lifeinthehills · 12/02/2023 07:01

Turangawaewae · 12/02/2023 06:58

This has put me off travelling to the whole region:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/doha-airport-australia-women-searched-baby-qatar-b1318055.html

It seems to me that it's okay if it's okay. But if something goes wrong, things can go very very wrong.

After this event, I have told my husband I am never flying through the region again.

Whatifthecathatesthebaby · 12/02/2023 07:02

In light of your companies inclusivity ethos, you definitely should, in a professional, constructive way challenge the location. However, as a former expat in that city I have many gay and lesbian friends who live their lives successfully and without fear there.

Username24680 · 12/02/2023 07:07

I’d respond with “Unfortunately I won’t be attending. I’m a bit disappointed that as an inclusive employer, you would select such a non-inclusive location for the meeting.”

Then I’d see what they come back with 🤷🏻‍♀️ It tells them you won’t be attending and leaves the ball in their court to think over the location choice.

100% with you @ElizaDav - I wouldn’t be attending either and I’m a straight, married female. Absolutely no desire to visit the area at all given their laws. In-laws actually live out there for his work and we’re invited out multiple times a year but have never visited

Iwonder08 · 12/02/2023 07:13

I agree with your view of Dubai, but don't agree with your view of the work situation. Plenty of gay people go to Dubai, it is safe unless you are planning to loudly shag your female colleague on the beach. But I guess you know it and it is not about safety. It is about their internal laws. From your description your presence on this trip is not essential for your company, but benefitial for you. Do you really think they will move the trip elsewhere because of your views? What are you practically going to achieve? Yes of course they will say you don't have to go given being gay is strictly illigal, but you can refuse the trip anyway.
If it is an interesting trip and it is good for your career I would go. Your business trip is not an endorsement of all the laws you don't agree with.

NumberTheory · 12/02/2023 07:20

Animallover87 · 12/02/2023 05:37

Dubai is very safe for female travellers. Definitely safer than the UK.

Also, I would be wary of bringing my sexuality into my work life as it could be deemed unprofessional.

Not saying your principles are wrong OP, they aren't, but tread carefully from your employment point of view.

Every time someone mentions their wife or husband in a business situation they are bringing their sexuality into the workplace. Sharing a family snap with colleagues. Mentioning your husband’s love of cars/football/ballroom dancing in order to connect with a potential mentor. These things are not unprofessional.

Sharing your sexuality isn’t the same thing as being sexual. It isn’t activist. It doesn’t mean standing up and shouting “I’m a Lesbian, and I’m out and proud, get used to it!”. Just engaging in normal, everyday conversation can do it.

tara66 · 12/02/2023 07:20

Dubai is generally safe for single travelling women. You can come back and say how much you hate it.

Kentlassie · 12/02/2023 07:22

Interestingly, we had D&I training at work a couple of years ago and this was one of the exact role play scenarios. I think you would be fine to explain why you feel uncomfortable going, and as an inclusive organisation, you hope the meeting location can be changed. Are people attending from across the world? Perhaps someone thought of Dubai as a good middle place.

Chias · 12/02/2023 07:25

I wouldn’t refuse to go on the basis of being a woman. If women refused to go to misogynistic places it would be a bit restricted. If it was me, I wouldn’t want the attitudes of Dubai to have any impact on my career, so I would go.

I wouldn’t choose to holiday there but that is a bit different.

Jonnywishbone · 12/02/2023 07:29

I work in Dubai with several obviously homosexual people including some who are married to same sex partners and live together. I don't get the impression they particularly fear imprisonment or repression.

Jonnywishbone · 12/02/2023 07:32

I think the perception of the country is completely different to the one you have. Whilst they are no about to hold gay pride festivals, they don't interfere with anyones private lives. They are also liberalising rapidly.

Jonnywishbone · 12/02/2023 07:33

Sorry I mean I think reality is different to your perception - was editing two sentences and didn't finish.

MudandParsnips · 12/02/2023 07:35

Hi OP, it's a really difficult situation and I sympathise with your dilemma. I'm not LGBTQ+, but I have been there multiple time for work trips. I thought I would hate it, but I loved it, and have had many great times there. Contrary to the laws, I found there is a very real liberal energy among the vastly expat populace, among both my western and ex-pat Arab colleagues. I also have some gay friends who happily live together there and have done for many years. It's very much don't ask, don't tell. Have a read of some gay travel sites for some more relevant advice. This is all meant to reassure you if you do decide to go, but you are well within your rights to decline the trip or challenge the destination on ethical grounds as well, please don't be afraid to do so. Good luck! Xx

Dguu6u · 12/02/2023 07:35

Don't go - no UK-based company should be spending a penny in that country. Why even do a global meet? Think about the carbon footprint as well.

ReneBumsWombats · 12/02/2023 07:38

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 02:13

I thought I'd hate Dubai but I loved it. Go and represent yourself and your sexuality. I'd think that would the best protest you could do.

Whatever you do, don't do this.

LlynTegid · 12/02/2023 07:39

Either @Simonjt plan or just say no. Offer to contribute via Zoom or Teams. Point out why. Some of your customers I'd guess would not be pleased, especially if any are in the public sector, so perhaps worth suggesting it could harm their business if that is the case.

If they have a corporate social responsibility section in their annual report or have shareholders, then it could cause issues as well.

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2023 07:39

The reason why they are holding it in Dubai is because brown and black people with less privileged passports can't easily get even tourist visas to the UK or Europe, because the British government thinks successful professionals are likely to become illegal immigrants. So either way the venue is likely to discriminate against a group of people.

saraclara · 12/02/2023 07:49

There's quite some hysteria on this thread, from people who have little knowledge of the region.

I know gay people who have visited or worked in Dubai, and it's no issue for them. As someone else said, there's even a gay scene there (though neither as far as I know, got involved with it).

You're not in any danger going on a work visit OP, and if the trip would be beneficial to your career I think you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face if you didn't go. And then, in some weird way, the country would have 'won'.

One of the gay friends that I mentioned, is traveling to Saudi of all places, soon.
He wants to see some specific archaeological sites there (it's his field of interest rather than work) and he's not prepared to let their attitudes restrict his access to the world. It's his way of saying "F you".

FixTheBone · 12/02/2023 07:51

I think you've got three options.

Resign. If the company insist on sending you there, their values clearly aren't as aligned to yours as they say.

Refuse to go. Up to you, but I'm not sure how I'd feel continuing to work for a company where point 1 applies.

Go. And just do what anyone else straight, gay or otherwise does, and don't publically display any signs of sexuality / affection. Remember the unmarried straight couple arrested for holding hands on a beech?

DaveyJonesLocker · 12/02/2023 07:51

Just say "I'm not allowed to go to Dubai, I'm gay, I'm illegal there, shall we make the meeting in other country instead."

It's not your fault, don't make it an "I don't want to go" situation when it's an "it's illegal " situation.

Dguu6u · 12/02/2023 07:55

saraclara · 12/02/2023 07:49

There's quite some hysteria on this thread, from people who have little knowledge of the region.

I know gay people who have visited or worked in Dubai, and it's no issue for them. As someone else said, there's even a gay scene there (though neither as far as I know, got involved with it).

You're not in any danger going on a work visit OP, and if the trip would be beneficial to your career I think you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face if you didn't go. And then, in some weird way, the country would have 'won'.

One of the gay friends that I mentioned, is traveling to Saudi of all places, soon.
He wants to see some specific archaeological sites there (it's his field of interest rather than work) and he's not prepared to let their attitudes restrict his access to the world. It's his way of saying "F you".

Saying fuck you while financially supporting these countries to continue their tyrannical ways, that's a funny way of showing you don't agree with them!

MarshaBradyo · 12/02/2023 07:59

NumberTheory · 12/02/2023 07:20

Every time someone mentions their wife or husband in a business situation they are bringing their sexuality into the workplace. Sharing a family snap with colleagues. Mentioning your husband’s love of cars/football/ballroom dancing in order to connect with a potential mentor. These things are not unprofessional.

Sharing your sexuality isn’t the same thing as being sexual. It isn’t activist. It doesn’t mean standing up and shouting “I’m a Lesbian, and I’m out and proud, get used to it!”. Just engaging in normal, everyday conversation can do it.

Show quote history

Appreciate this post. I’m married to a dh but I think people underestimate how normal conversation on daily life is an indication of sexuality, it’s not fair to expect a group to withhold all this and it’s not unprofessional.

ReneBumsWombats · 12/02/2023 08:01

He wants to see some specific archaeological sites there (it's his field of interest rather than work) and he's not prepared to let their attitudes restrict his access to the world. It's his way of saying "F you".

Yeah. More tourism. That'll show em.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 12/02/2023 08:02

A lot of business/ conferences etc now are being held in the Middle East, because it’s a midway point for the world to travel to.
I think you’re being a tad dramatic, and I would be keen to know if you’d have the same response if they request you travel to say Delhi? Jamaica? Honestly I sense MN Dubai snobbery yet again.