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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to refuse to go on a business trip to Dubai

313 replies

ElizaDav · 12/02/2023 01:48

I have been asked to provide my expertise on a product development project. Not part of my main responsibilities but an interesting opportunity and cool way to get more exposure in the organisation. Part of it will entail participation in a 4 day meeting with global colleagues on Dubai. Am an out and proud lesbian and definitely not a place I want to go to. Would it look bad if I refuse? Could I suggest they have the meeting in the UK (where we are HQed) or another country? I feel angry that i have been put in a position where i have to choose between career development and travelling to a homophobic and misogynistic country. Our organisation is always going on about diversity inclusion etc yet men making decisions that we should all meet in Dubai just smacks of institutional homophobia and misogyny. Arrghhh...

OP posts:
chupachump · 12/02/2023 08:02

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 03:14

I guess that's why they're still oppressed then.

Wow!

Bunnycat101 · 12/02/2023 08:05

I think you can get legitimately ask the organisers for a risk assessment for you and any other staff members who might find themselves in a challenging situation. That is sensible to do with any foreign travel for work.

Some posters are being very dismissive of the OP’s concerns. I’m sure 99% of the time people fly under the radar and travel with no issues. The problem is if something goes wrong and the OP is out in a more difficult position because she’s a lesbian. That situation isn’t completely out of the question.

Paq · 12/02/2023 08:05

FixTheBone · 12/02/2023 07:51

I think you've got three options.

Resign. If the company insist on sending you there, their values clearly aren't as aligned to yours as they say.

Refuse to go. Up to you, but I'm not sure how I'd feel continuing to work for a company where point 1 applies.

Go. And just do what anyone else straight, gay or otherwise does, and don't publically display any signs of sexuality / affection. Remember the unmarried straight couple arrested for holding hands on a beech?

There is a fourth option, have a serious conversation with your organisation and ask them what messages they are sending their gay and lesbian colleagues by holding events in Dubai.

Tbh as a straight woman I would be uncomfortable about going, and I grew up in a ME country so I would consider myself pretty well informed.

Whyisitsososohard · 12/02/2023 08:08

It's awful your company even asked this if you. People saying you won't be unsafe are totally missing the point. Absolutely no way should you be asked to go somewhere with even a tiny bit of risk due to your sexuality

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2023 08:10

Some years ago my workplace had a conference in the UK with some academics from Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Ghana and Pakistan invited. Two of them were rejected for tourist visas and the other two were so enraged by the endless documentation that they refused to come. So we had a sham conference on their area of expertise with a bunch of all white attendees. That is often the case for events in the UK, and more so now with massive visa backlog. Something British people don't often realise is how difficult it is to visit the UK or Europe for anyone not white.

Not so in Dubai, which offers visas on arrival for many less privileged passports That is why it is the conference capital of the world.

catgirl1976 · 12/02/2023 08:10

YANBU. You couldn’t pay me to go their. I like the suggestion up thread about raising the companies values of inclusivity

They want you to go to a country that would criminalise your sexuality and where you may be unsafe. Not unreasonable to point out that’s unacceptable

Woolandwonder · 12/02/2023 08:12

I think it's totally reasonable to refuse to go and to be really clear about your reasons. It's not a safe place for you and why should you spend any of your money in a place which is totally at odds with your values.

Also it's fine to say that it's just a business trip, but what would happen if you had an accident/became unwell and ended up needing to spend more time there, I don't know if you have a partner but that could end up being an absolute nightmare for you both.

Velvian · 12/02/2023 08:14

YANBU. There is no way I would go to Dubai. Every so often the authorities decide to make an example of someone.

I really don't understand how so many people can go on luxury holidays there and support an industry that has been built on slavery, death and injury and repression.

FancyFanny · 12/02/2023 08:16

It's a business trip. Unless your sexuality is integral to your work role I don't see how it's got anything to do with it. Are you going to be having sex with women while you're there?

If you visit a country you have to respect their rules. I was used to being able to have drink in a bar at 18 but when I visited the states at age 20 I had to forgo this and sit there with a soft drink while my boyfriend enjoyed a beer.

There are lots of places in the world that have laws I disagree with- but unless you are limiting yourself to only ever visiting places that share all your ethics then I still feel fine visiting because experiences of different cultures are all beneficial, enriching and worthwhile.

Dammitthisisshit · 12/02/2023 08:16

I’m straight so I appreciate I don’t have the issue of being ‘illegal’ due to perfectly normal and legitimate choices. But I am female and I’ve worked in many misogynistic countries.

I don’t see it as so clear cut. Most (probably all if I investigated) countries, including the UK, have laws and social conventions that I don’t agree with. I’ve worked in countries where local women are not allowed to hold certain positions of responsibility but as an ‘outsider’ I was treated extremely well, listened to and off duty you can have extremely honest and open conversations about various things. It’s only by having these conversations that you can appreciate others point of view, and hope to change theirs.

I’ve also been extremely frustrated with the way I’ve been treated sometimes and limited my normal behaviour to avoid getting into dangerous situations. However I do think that talking and challenging is how we can ever hope to change things. ‘Off duty’ I’ve discussed topics such as female education (and why it’s not prioritised as much as male), polygamy, and why we need women in the workforce.
‘On duty’ then just being in a country, on a project, makes a statement. It helps if you’re backed up by male colleagues (eg dammit is the expert in this area, I’d like to get her view’) but just being there, showing you have nothing to hide and are an equal is making more of a statement than avoiding it.

saraclara · 12/02/2023 08:20

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2023 08:10

Some years ago my workplace had a conference in the UK with some academics from Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Ghana and Pakistan invited. Two of them were rejected for tourist visas and the other two were so enraged by the endless documentation that they refused to come. So we had a sham conference on their area of expertise with a bunch of all white attendees. That is often the case for events in the UK, and more so now with massive visa backlog. Something British people don't often realise is how difficult it is to visit the UK or Europe for anyone not white.

Not so in Dubai, which offers visas on arrival for many less privileged passports That is why it is the conference capital of the world.

Exactly. We're in one hell of a glass house, here.

My Malawian friend was refused a visa to the UK, despite meeting all the criteria. But hey, he's black and from a poor country, so it didn't matter how many of us supported and guaranteed his visa, the govt's racism won.

Untitledsquatboulder · 12/02/2023 08:20

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2023 08:10

Some years ago my workplace had a conference in the UK with some academics from Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Ghana and Pakistan invited. Two of them were rejected for tourist visas and the other two were so enraged by the endless documentation that they refused to come. So we had a sham conference on their area of expertise with a bunch of all white attendees. That is often the case for events in the UK, and more so now with massive visa backlog. Something British people don't often realise is how difficult it is to visit the UK or Europe for anyone not white.

Not so in Dubai, which offers visas on arrival for many less privileged passports That is why it is the conference capital of the world.

Well quite.

I think it's fine OP if you genuinely don't travel to any countries where homosexuality is illegal or where woman have less rights in law than men. Just remember that the few remaining countries where you'd be happy to meet might not be accessible to everyone.

XelaM · 12/02/2023 08:20

piggijg · 12/02/2023 02:08

The only way you wouldn't be safe is if you decide to have sex with a woman on your work trip or declare your sexuality rather loudly. Either way it would rather strange for a work trip really. I get not wanting to go to Dubai but I can't see how the risk assessment would go well really...I don't believe in restricting a woman's right to an abortion....but I wouldn't refuse to go on a work trip to Texas.

This. Are you planning to have sex in the hotel bar?

Hadjab · 12/02/2023 08:21

Ponderingwindow · 12/02/2023 02:26

yes, you could hide who you are. You can’t hide the fact that you are female. Ask work what happens if you are sexually assaulted during your business trip?

Curious as to why you think OP is more likely to be sexually assaulted going to Dubai, than if she were going anywhere else?

Lentilweaver · 12/02/2023 08:21

Singapore only legalised homosexuality in 2022 and India in 2018. Though yes, the laws against were mostly unenforced.

Campervangirl · 12/02/2023 08:24

It's the one place my exp wanted to go to, I wouldn't go for the exact reasons you've stated.

cashmerecow · 12/02/2023 08:26

This reply has been deleted

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Snugglemonkey · 12/02/2023 08:29

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 03:14

I guess that's why they're still oppressed then.

Wft?! Are you actually blaming people for their own oppression because they are not doing enough to prevent it?

harrassedmumto3 · 12/02/2023 08:31

I would go. You're a professional and it's only for 4 days.

NumberTheory · 12/02/2023 08:32

Hadjab · 12/02/2023 08:21

Curious as to why you think OP is more likely to be sexually assaulted going to Dubai, than if she were going anywhere else?

Show quote history

She may be less likely to me sexually assaulted. but the question wasn’t - Ask work what the risk of being sexually assaulted is. It was - Ask work what happens if you are sexually assaulted.

Because when sex outside marriage is illegal, by reporting a rape you are admitting to having had sex outside of marriage, and so you are immediately putting yourself in a legally vulnerable position. Especially if you’re homosexual.

saraclara · 12/02/2023 08:41

Part of it will entail participation in a 4 day meeting with global colleagues on Dubai.

If their global colleagues, is say that Dubai had been chosen for its openness to offering visas to almost all nationalities.

Could I suggest they have the meeting in the UK (where we are HQed) or another country?

Highly unlikely that this would work, given that some or many of those participants would be refused visas.

I feel angry that i have been put in a position where i have to choose between career development and travelling to a homophobic and misogynistic country.

This is where you recognise your privilege as a white British person. Yes, it's uncomfortable for you to visit a place where theoretically lesbianism is illegal. But this is a one off, you can go and you will be safe, and you can avoid it if you're determined to miss out on this professional opportunity.

Now imagine what it's like for those who are unwelcome here to the point that they are not allowed the freedom you have to travel for work, due to the colour of their skin or the poverty of their country. They don't get a choice. They're simply blocked from coming here.

FeelTheRush · 12/02/2023 08:42

I think the question is, how much do you like your job?

Assuming you're not planning on bringing your wife with you and then having sex in public, you're fine. I feel there's a risk of setting yourself on a path to getting managed out here tbh.

Spanielsarepainless · 12/02/2023 08:43

Being lesbian isn't illegal. Showing that you are, in a sexual manner, is.

BellePeppa · 12/02/2023 08:45

MarshaMelrose · 12/02/2023 02:13

I thought I'd hate Dubai but I loved it. Go and represent yourself and your sexuality. I'd think that would the best protest you could do.

You may ‘love’ Dubai (why??) but do you know anything about it outside a hotel resort?

Comtesse · 12/02/2023 08:46

In your shoes, I wouldn’t go. The risks are too great.