What is going on with parenting these days?

[whocaresaboutbeingpopular]

Ok, so as my name change suggests I am aware this won’t be popular. My children are almost adults, youngest is 17 this year.

me and OH are away this weekend, we went to a place that to be fair we were aware would be full of kids; but we didn’t think that would matter as we don’t dislike having children around, however, since when did it become a thing to….

put your kids in front of a screen when they are having a meal? Not to mention having full volume of Peppa Fucking Pig?

let your kids shriek at high pitch continuously?

let your 18 month old walk themselves down the stairs despite a massive queue of people behind t? Ffs pick them up!

yes, no doubt I sound a right miserable bastard, but come on - is this how people are raising their kids these day? Bring on the entitled generation.

Well I agree with you on the screaming and the walking down the stairs.

But iPads for under 5s/6s are really useful.

My children are 9 and 11 and haven't used an iPad when out for years, but when little they played on a kindle/tablet/phone at the table largely for the benefit of other people in the restaurant/cafe etc.. so they were quiet and not trying to leave the seat etc.. or disrupt anyone.

My mum hated it and was v judgemental. But if I didn't bring the screens she was judgemental of the children talking and fidgeting etc.. so you can't win.

Screens are a helpful way, when they children are small, for everyone to enjoy the meal. The adults can relax, mum (and it usually is mum) can also relax without having to stress over keeping the children quiet and keeping them entertained etc.., the children can have fun and not get bored, the other customers and staff are happy as no disruptive children.

My children appear to have no lasting damage! They are capable at 11 and 9 of holding good conversation at the table and are well mannered.

I think people just have unnecessary judgement about screens the same way they do with dummies.

The parents who do not set boundaries and challenge unacceptable behaviour are those who will suffer the most, especially when their DC get older.

I wouldn’t have let my kids do those things, but YABU because I suspect you’ve forgotten what it was like to have small kids, and that your parenting and their behaviour really got on other people’s nerves at times, and was far from perfect

I'm with you op it seems that parents these days don't like to say no to their offspring, ever.

My mum hated it and was v judgemental. But if I didn't bring the screens she was judgemental of the children talking and fidgeting etc.. so you can't win.

@ChocMarshmallows exactly this. The OP is simultaneously moaning about kids shrieking and moaning about screens. Maybe the parents of kids with screens are trying to stop them kicking off. Also, as another PP said... why is a screen any different from colouring at a table?

Hear, bloody hear!! We had to spend time engaging with them but my DS with SNs didn't rely on screens when out.

YANBU. DH and I tried a new restaurant last night. It’s a cocktail bar and restaurant and definitely not somewhere that I would take young children. But, there were several children in there and they were running riot!! Literally, running around the (very busy) restaurant, fighting with each other, climbing all over other peoples chairs, up the bar stools, screaming etc. Parents just ignored it. Awful.

My eldest will sit at a table in a restaurant fairly nicely with some colouring.

My youngest (22 months) can sit still for approximately 2 minutes. Every fibre of his being wants to escape his high chair and run around and touch every button, break out of fire escapes, talk to everyone, climb everything. When he's cornered and brought back to the table he screeches and writhes like a wet fish. He gets bored of colouring and books after a couple of minutes.

So it's either that, he disturbs everyone around us and I have a nervous breakdown, or we put some (very quiet) telly on my phone for him while we eat.

I'm sure he'll calm down a bit when he's older, but I don't think his personality has anything to do with my 'bad parenting' - he's just a toddler. Maybe if your toddlers sit perfectly at the table you just got lucky with a chill one

@Iwantabloodypizza of course they've always existed. My point is that libraries used to be places where it was expected to be fairly quiet, even for children. Now it's the adults (parent) riling up the dc and actively encouraging them to make noise.

But it's so often kids who are older, I get it with toddlers but a 4 year old plus should be learning how to sit quietly for a bit. I was out last week with friends in a very nice restaurant. The table next to us had 3 kids aged about 7 and older who didn't even put their iPads down to eat. The parents talk a bit to each other but I never saw them once engaging with their children. They were there for 2 hours. It was a bit depressing. I can't think of a situation where I have done then, even when knackered or grieving or mid divorce where I would ignore my kids that long.

I agree with all of this.
We don't do screens when out and about. I have a 5yr old and 2yr old and they're not perfect but really do have beautiful manners/behaviour at restaurants, we can take them anywhere. We always take something small and quiet we can do with them at restaurants if we're going for a longer meal or with other people so puzzle games, board books, Colouring.

DD went through a thankfully short phase of thinking it was amusing to shreik, but lasted a week or so if that.

I have no problem with a child walking independently on stairs but if holding people up would step to the side so people could pass. I wouldn't stop her walking though and pick her up.

No selective memory here.
They knew from the off that they had to behave or else.

But I have always seen that!

When my ds was a baby I lived in nappy valley. The library was wall to wall, over the top animal sounds from parents while their children just looked bored and chewed the corners.

Loud parents have always existed, libraries are the key stomping ground because they tick all the look at me boxes for them.

Using a library - tick! Interacting with my child - tick! They are clearly cleverer than yours and will go to Cambridge because they are 10 months and can make a froggy sound which you must all know about because I will make them screech it at full volume twenty times - tick! “Look darling, mummy is a froggy! look at mummy hop like a froggy, can you hop like a froggy! Who’s watching me! You must all watch me and see what a fabulously mummy I am!” - while the child doesn’t give a shit and just wants to go home.

Oh god, it’s been grating on me for two decades!!

I really hate all this screen judging!! My 11 and 9 year old boys have both survived toddler years using a screen at the table! They have both developed into well mannered, well behaved young children. They are polite and able to have conversation in a restaurant despite occasionally being given a screen when they were 4 in pizza express!!

I really think all the posts implying that children given screens when in a restaurant age 3, won't grow into well mannered 11 year olds are ridiculous and incredibly judgemental.

We have some friends and the children are same age as mine (11 and 9). They are lovely children, but so are mine!! The mum is also on the whole really lovely. But these children have never been given a screen. They are not allowed to play computer games, watch YouTube etc... And the smugness and superiority which ooses from the mum about this really pushes my buttons!!!

The superior attitude of the anti screen bunch I just find so odd!!

You sound awful and I feel sorry for your own children honestly. We are still a remarkably un-child friendly society with opinions like yours the norm. Children shriek, children walk more slowly - they also have as much right to take up the space as you do! I imagine that’s a radical thought for you.

@Alexisrose16 you have my total sympathy. That sounds all very tough. But it also sounds like you are doing all the right things. Ignore those that have perfectly behaved children who never have scene time in a cafe so mum can get 10 much needed minutes to herself. I don’t judge: lots of people don’t judge. And there are many women who would be absolutely understanding. the judgy types can judge each other.

Nothing’s gone wrong with parenting, you’re just getting a bit older and can’t seem to tolerate relatively normal child behaviour. Also what you will have seen will be a very short snapshot of the day. Maybe some parents have spent hours earnestly interacting with their kids and just want 10 mins peace before they attempt the journey home and use a screen for that- it’s no worse than a pen and paper (I agree though headphones should be used). Maybe it’s the first time that the 18m old had attempted stairs, and did anyone die for waiting a few mins? Maybe all the shrieking kids had been perfectly behaved all day and just needed 5 mins to let off steam and in fact it was the combination of so many of them which was the issue. I would definitely have tried to quiet them down and calm them down if mine but I will 100% admit that it didn’t always work quickly. Or maybe it was you having a bad day which made it all worse. I’d visit these sorts of places in term time in the future as it’s not going to make you happy to become a tutter and you need to find a way to desensitise yourself to it I think.

Training the child to walk down the stairs is cute. Tablets when eating, I wouldn't do it, I think children need to learn how to eat out and learn table manners.

You could have asked them to turn down the iPads.
Stairs wouldn't bother me - kids needs to learn.

You saw snippets of these families days. I'm sure at one point or another someone has tutted at your parenting.

If all these children had been sat eating hummus, colouring by numbers and reciting Shakespeare you'd have wrote another scathing thread.

You simply cannot win.

Completely disagree with the fact some people say iPads “are the same as colouring books” they are not, the smaller screen the more shut off the child is from interacting. Books or small toys bring more communication between other children at the table or adults and children at the table. Screens do not. It is anti social and does not teach anything just rudeness. This obsession with children having screens makes me sad and worry for the future.

Parents are too PC to tell their children "no" anymore. Just like they don't discipline all the dogs they get, so they run around jumping up at people.

I don't have an issue with screens in restaurants per se-but It depends on the place you have chosen to go IMO.
DH and I have four kids and if we go out as a family we'll take them somewhere that's family friendly where there are likely to be other families-so we know aren't going to disturb anyone else with any kid behaviour as everyone is in the same boat. Pizza express, local Italian or Greek places near us for example fit the bill. If one of the dc's is kicking up hugely or whatever however they are still told off or taken outside as needed. If one is really tired/grumpy they are allowed the screen whilst waiting for the meal to arrive.
What really grinds me however is when you go somewhere speccy and there are kids being loud/on screens/ being allowed to run around the room. We recently went for a long anticipated and saved for very fancy lunch as part of our wedding. The table next to us had a toddler and 6 month ish baby. The toddler understandably wouldn't eat anything on the menu (it was a tasting menu with various weird and fancy stuff on it) and kicked off hugely and the baby cried throughout. The parents put the toddler on the iPad and then kept pulling out loud baby toys to try and amuse the baby. It was very annoying and kind of spoiled our meal. Lots of other diners were also a bit irritated. We couldn't understand why the parents would have taken the kids to that particular place (long waiting list to go there so definitely a conscious choice).
Had I been you on your weekend away I wouldn't have chosen somewhere I knew lots of kids would be. And I would hope that no one had chosen to bring their baby to the more adult place I had actually picked!

Some of the worst brought up children I know are now young people aged 17-20. They were sat in front of screens at meals out 10 years ago, they were completely over indulged. It's not a new thing, there have always been rubbish parents.

What research is there to say a child using an iPad in a restaurant 2 or 3 times a year, or even double that, will have a detrimental impact on their development?! Oh please!

I disagree that using an iPad teaches rudeness. When I gave my children a screen in a restaurant it was specifically to keep my children quiet for the benefit of the other people using the restaurant. So the opposite of teaching rudeness.

Both my children are well mannered, thoughtful, intelligent children now they are 9 and 11 and haven't used a screen at a table since they were 5 or 6. I can see no detrimental impact on them whatsoever from using screens is a restaurant under the age of 6. They both do competitive sport, and while both still love using their computers at home, they have many other interests.

I think screens are a great new addition to family life if used carefully and the anti-screeners just feel so judgey and superior to me.

ND children often use screens for a different reason than other children. I don't use them with my own child (teenager) because they wouldn't work for him - he does repetative noises and behaviour instead - which I am sure some of the uneducated would also see as bad behaviour or poor parenting.