To remind you that no photo ID = no right to vote.

[SusiePevensie]

Get ID here: www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

'Next time you want to make an argument, try not to be disingenuous by distorting the facts'

The quote I posted states it was an estimation. Where did I say it was a fact? Your link does not even work.

Sure which is disingenuous itself and completely misleads everyone on the 3500 voters being turned away too. like i said, disingenuous.

Voter ID works so well in Northern Ireland that the Electoral Commission recognises it as an example of best practice for GB to emulate.

BTW, which link? There's two.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/3500-turned-away-from-polling-stations-during-northern-ireland-election/35720310.html

uk.finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/impact-voter-id-turnout-unknowable-111659136.html

Both should work fine.

UK voting stations cover relatively small local areas/wards. Historically, people helping to run the ballot would have known most voters at least by sight.
As we have become a more mobile society, this is no longer reliable.

In principle, I'm not against voter ID, but this feels a bit by the back door, and yes, the people likely to be disenfranchised by this are less likely to vote Tory.

If, as claimed it is a genuine attempt to crack down on voter fraud, there would be a review of postal voting.

The Electoral Commission recognises the need to make the GB voting procedure more secure in order to inspire confidence in the system.

And boost turnout.

This is the true reason voter ID was introduced in Northern Ireland in the first place. It's been successful and will be so in GB.

The Electoral Commission frequently cite Northern Ireland as an example to follow.

Fact is if voters in the poorest part of the United Kingdom have no problem with Voter ID.....there's no reason to suppose voters in the more better off parts of the UK will struggle to get to grips with it all.

The poorest part of the UK? Northern Ireland where ID is required before you can vote.

It seems to me its mostly lefties in Great Britain who have an irrational fear of this disadvantaging their favoured party. Quite curious how lefties in Northern Ireland don't share the same irrational fear.

Or those in the Republic of Ireland for that matter.

The people of GB will have little problems getting on with voter ID. If some can't afford it, well it's FREE! It's not rocket science!

And here is the findings of the Electoral Commission on the voter ID pilot in 2019:

"The data and findings presented in our evaluation build on the evidence base provided by the 2018 pilot scheme. This evidence further clarifies the way in which a voter ID scheme could be delivered in Great Britain.

However, we are not able to draw definitive conclusions, from these pilots, about how an ID requirement would work in practice, particularly at a national poll with higher levels of turnout or in areas with different socio-demographic profiles not fully represented in the pilot scheme."

So, they say they weren't able to draw definitive conclusions which doesn't match the doom 'n gloom narrative several have given in this thread.

And they went on to say the following:

"If the policy is to be developed further, Government and Parliament should consider carefully the available evidence about the impact of different approaches on the accessibility and security of polling station voting in Great Britain.

This should include evidence from the experience of polling station voters in Northern Ireland, who have been required to show ID since 1985 (including requiring photo ID since 2003), as well as the evidence from the local pilot schemes in both 2018 and 2019."

Essentially, Northern Ireland should be looked to for best practice on the requirement of voter ID. As already shown with no serious argument against it, Northern Ireland already shows requiring voter ID does work!

As for accessibility to voter ID, they stated:

"While a large majority of people already have access to an acceptable form of photo ID, allowing only existing forms of officially issued photo ID would not be accessible for everyone.

To make sure voting at polling stations remains accessible, there would need to be other options for people who do not already have an acceptable form of photo ID. This could involve providing free of charge locally issued photo ID, as currently provided for electors in Northern Ireland.

Alternatively, it could involve allowing voters to use their poll card – on the current model or a different model – as the primary or secondary route to proving identity, depending on the level of security required."

And:

"Locally issued ID that includes a photo – like the electoral identity card currently provided in Northern Ireland – would be more secure than locally issued ID without a photo."

And:

"Some groups of people would find it harder than others to show photo ID in a polling station, although this could be mitigated if locally issued photo voter cards were easily available for all."

Once again, we find that Northern Ireland is held up in this regard for best practice. Essentially, GB would follow best practice from us in Northern Ireland and, if necessary, tweak anything that is needed to ensure best function.

Really, I think it's tribalism in the vein of Labour v Conservatives that's at the heart of any opposition in this thread. Pretty much driven by those who vote Labour based on an irrational fear.

But the Electoral Commission is very clear Voter ID becoming a requirement DOES work.

The Electoral Commission's concerns was related to the short time table for Local Elections in May, IIRC.

Not with the principle of requirements for voter ID itself. Important distinction.

It will apply to General Elections in England from October 2023, so plenty of time to get it right having learnt best practice from Northern Ireland.

ooh . . . posting it twice must make it twice as true.

This, in a nutshell. Not only are levels of voter fraud extremely low under the current system, according to the EC / govt's own figures and estimates, but what fraud does occur is mostly in postal voting, which won't be affected by these changes.

Hands up who can guess which party traditionally gains far and away the majority of postal votes . . .

This is just juvenile claptrap as my post stands on its own two feet well enough since it uses the Electoral Commission as a source and the actual example of how well voter ID works in an integral part of the UK.

Northern Ireland.

Indeed, since 2014 the Electoral Commission has been saying GB should implement voter ID.

As for the post you quoted, the amendment to extend the range of acceptable forms of ID was defeated in the Commons as follows:

"During the Lords stages of the Bill an amendment from Lord Willets (Conservative) was passed that extended the list of types of ID to other types of photo ID and non-photo ID. The amendment was overturned by the House of Commons. The Government’s view was the types of ID listed were not sufficiently secure and might be prone to fraud."

But this isn't a problem because:

"Free voter document

A new free voter document, to be called a Voter Authority Certificate (VAC), will be made available for those without any other form of photographic ID. People are likely to be able to apply for these from January 2023. The detailed draft secondary legislation required for the applications process was laid in Parliament on 3 November 2022, and approved by both Houses of Parliament in December 2022."

Indeed, we can find that Wonderpoo also ignored this from the Electoral Commission report:

"While a large majority of people already have access to an acceptable form of photo ID, allowing only existing forms of officially issued photo ID would not be accessible for everyone.

To make sure voting at polling stations remains accessible, there would need to be other options for people who do not already have an acceptable form of photo ID. This could involve providing free of charge locally issued photo ID, as currently provided for electors in Northern Ireland.

Alternatively, it could involve allowing voters to use their poll card – on the current model or a different model – as the primary or secondary route to proving identity, depending on the level of security required."

And:

"Locally issued ID that includes a photo – like the electoral identity card currently provided in Northern Ireland – would be more secure than locally issued ID without a photo."

At each turn, we find Northern Ireland being held up by the Electoral Commission as an example of best practice which GB will follow.

GB is providing FREE voter ID cards as happens in Northern Ireland.

www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

"Apply for photo ID to vote

It’s free to apply. You’ll need:

a recent, digital photo of yourself
your National Insurance number

You can still apply if you do not have a National Insurance number. You’ll need to provide other documents to prove your identity, for example a birth certificate, bank statement and utility bill."

Fact is if voters in the poorest part of the United Kingdom have no problem with Voter ID.....there's no reason to suppose voters in the more better off parts of the UK will struggle to get to grips with it all.

The poorest part of the UK? Northern Ireland where ID is required before you can vote.

2% of the population who are entitled to vote in the May elections do not have any of the documents that would allow them to vote.

There is not enough time for all their applications to be processed in the few weeks before the May elections, so it is expected that a 1.3 million people plus will be disenfranchised by this legislation.

I have not seen figures for how many peoples out of date passport etc would not now be considered a good enough likeness to be accepted at the ballot box.

Or how many 18 year olds are recognisable as their younger child self on their passport. If they have one.

If everyone who needs a new photo ID applies now, it will take 8 years to process them all.

There is a general election within the next 2 years.

@Pixiedust1234

They are processing about 5000 a week of these new voter IDs.

The governments own estimate is that at least 1.3 million people have no suitable documents and need need a new voter ID. (Not including the people whose out of date ID is not now a good enough likeness.)

The election is in 10 weeks. Anyone who hasn't applied in 7-8 weeks from now will be disenfranchised.

And that's going to be over a million people. (Not including the people whose out of date or in date ID is no longer a good enough likeness.)

Where is that 8 years coming from? Is the current process rate the maximum capacity?

It's the current rate. The government are coy about capacity but with only 5% of those who need to applying it currently takes about two weeks to get one. It was supposed to take 5 working days.

So current rate of applications not maximum processing capacity? That makes difference.
I do accept that if it should take 5 days, 2 weeks is a problem.
The uptake in applications is most likely to ramp up.

Ifs it's taking two weeks when they've only got 5000 applicants, how long will it take when they get a million?

We should have had ID cards by now, as many countries do, for just this and many other reasons. No government has dared as there here has always been opposition from idiots who wail about their rights being infringed, yet they happily use their passport to go abroad, driving licence to drive etc.

If they wanted to do that, they should've started more than a couple of months before an election.

It's costing £200 million just to do a few thousand voter ID cards.

Abd the procedure at polling stations is going to be slow going.

the CEV who wear a face mask to go and vote will have to remove it. Women who wear a face covering for their culture will have to remove it. The photo ID will be checked to see if it's a good enough likeness, going into a private room to do so if necessary.... it's going to take ages.

So straight away, easier to apply online, so excluding the poor and less motivated.

Oap railcard acceptable, student rail card not....

I wonder why.....?

It doesn't exclude the poor as it is free. The councils are running sessions in libraries etc to help those without a camera or computer, or are struggling.

As for excluding the less motivated...😂

The fact that voter IDs are free doesn’t help much when there’s been so little messaging about it that a huge proportion of the people who need one don’t know they need it!

I’m not against voter ID in principle, but absolutely agree with this:
It's really badly planned out and not being done for the right reasons.

2% of the voting population of England who are registered to vote in local elections is approx 825,000. Only a third vote in local elections. Which is about 270,000. There are 333 local authorities in England. So that eqivalates to 800 people per authority (obvs it won't be perfectly even). 8 weeks to process (possibly more). Surely they can process 100 applications a week. And that's based on everyone applying, which won't happen. And even if, say, they only get through 500 applications on total, so 300 don't get the vote, spread over the multiple wards, it's going to make very little difference to the outcomes of the elections.
My borough is neither that big nor populous and has a population of 80,000, with about 60,000 registered to vote. That works out at about 3,500 voters per ward. That 300 people represents 18 per ward. Even if the whole 800 didn't vote, that's 47 people per ward.
These figures aren't going to realistically affect the results.
And it might well be that a number of the people without photo ID might not even be registered to vote nor interested in voting. It might be a higher proportion of these people don't bother to vote in local elections. We just don't know. Some people might not have the paperwork to vote. Some people will have the paperwork but there will be a variety of reasons why they won't be able to vote either.
There's too much uncertainty about voters to know realistically how many people this will affect. That's why the EC is using worse case scenario figures because they have no concrete knowledge what the numbers are.

Well @MarshaMelrose I'm sure you'll head to usher to hear that the government is being disingenuous with its figures.

The 98% it says have an accepted form of photo ID includes everybody alive who has ever had a firm of photo ID

So if someone in their fifties now got a passport to go on an 18-30 holiday in the 1990s and never renewed it the government is counting them even though the governments rules also state that they should be turned away if their 30 year old expired passport is not a good likeness.

It's also counting the 18 year olds who have ever had a passport as a child even though they may look very different now and the rules state that their ID won't be accepted if it is not a good likeness.

This legislation takes away the right to vote from people who otherwise had the right to vote.

Some won't find out that their government has disenfranchised them until polling day.

So does the need to register though if you look at it that way.
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-is-registered

But this new law affects people who have registered to vote.

They will have every expectation that they can just rock up at a piling station and exercise their democratic right.

Until they find out that our government has taken it away from them.

God my typing's terrible today. Apologies