to want to use the bus like everyone else?

[toddlertamer20]

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

YANBU. People are dickheads.

I have bus routes near me that go to three major hospitals, yet when a person with extra mobility needs requires the space, people kick off. I despair.

Bus drivers are not empowered to do anything about it. You’d probably find that if a driver intervened and there was a complaint to the LA, the company would be fined. That’s why they don’t let people on the bus if they are late too. As a bus driver, why would you want to risk your job to address some dispute between passengers over their entitlements?

They have power to direct the person using the space wrongly to leave the bus, and to refuse to leave until they do. In the final analysis, they can call the transport or ordinary police to get the person in question off. if they don't intervene, the bus company could be on the wrong end of a substantial discrimination claim.

then if thats the case when the space is needed keep them in the pram and get off the bus so you can wait for the next one.

I used to be a carer for a lad in a massive electric wheelchair, it was really difficult to get on and off transport, busses especially. I always wondered why society doesn't appreciate being mobile its something we all have forever and why we don't just invest in seatless busses specifically for wheelchair users.
It makes so much more sense to give disabled people more independence and freedom.
It's fucking disgusting to expect disabled people to wait extra hours for a bus and the pram space is small anyway.
We need to make society move inclusive for wheelchairs in general, the amount of times I've walked my clients on the road because some thoughtless gobshite has parked on the pavement etc, we need to do better really. Its not much to ask we give those with a mobility disadvantage a fair and accessible society to live in.

You do realise that in some parts of the UK- especially big cities- schools can be massively oversubscribed and it really is luck of the draw where you end up? Not everybody has the option of sending their children to the school round the corner if there are no places.

I agree about fining people who refuse to move. Should be a penalty fare just as you would receive for failing to have a ticket. Not sure if/ how it would work and how comfortable the drivers would be about taking people's details etc though.
OP YANBU at all. There is a man called Doug Paulley who has uploaded some videos of his journeys as a wheelchair user on public transport and I found myself getting angry on his behalf at some of the treatment he has received from some people and the inaccessibility of some of our transport infrastructure.

If it is enshrined in law, then every time a wheelchair user tries to use a bus and there is no wheelchair user already on the bus occupying the designated spade, the wheelchair user records themselves asking to get onto the bus (GoPro), clarified that the bus is refusing to give them access to the disabled space, and then files a damaged claim through the small claims court citing the Supreme Court ruling.

Bus companies will go to Government for assistance when they are snowed under with having to pay lawyers to attend court.

But of course that takes people willing to take a stand, which 99 times out of 100 people are not willing to do, because it’s just not that big a deal, and they can trust that citizens can sort these things out amongst themselves.

@Wimbz20 Even if it is an inconvenience, you do realise that wheelchair users have priority? Perhaps you should have considered getting a pram that folds more easily?

I get the feeling more drivers should get training so that there is a consistency on all buses because I’ve often seen drivers refuse to leave unless the wheelchair user was accommodated.

Well there’s your answer then. Sack drivers who refuse to control the passengers on the bus. Put the drivers livelihood on the line and they’ll find their backbones. If the offending party does not move or leave, call the police and end the bus service at that stop. Explain to the passengers that the bus cannot proceed until all passengers on the bus are willing to comply with the law. Make it clear via the announcement service that the passenger in the blue sweater with the yellow buggy is refusing to comply with the law and the bus cannot move on to the next stop and the police have been called.

Bat that required bus drivers with backbones, and you don’t pay them enough for that, and most people are not willing to pay the extra bus fares to ensure drivers are paid a decent wage.

So until people as a whole stop fighting amongst themselves and decide to live next to each other with civility, compassion and kindness, we get what we get. Lots of self-entitled individuals who couldn’t give a F about those around them, and are happy with crappy service so long as it’s cheap.

I use to take a neighbour to his hospital appointments and he preferred to go on the bus rather than wait for the hospital transport. He was in a wheelchair and I did numerous battles with parents who refused to fold up their buggy or get off the bus. Some bus drivers were helpful, others less so which resulted in complaints to the bus company.

He would refuse to put himself at risk by going onto the road when cars blocked the pavement. I hate to think how many cars he scratched trying to get past on the pavement. His response was that they were at fault and not him - he’s died now but he was good at battling for his rights but shouldn’t have to do so - too many selfish people around.

Some of these comments are ridiculous. I’m currently mobility-impaired but do not use a wheelchair - I do not use the wheelchair space, but I do use the accessibility seats. I will vacate said seat if someone with a greater need requires it.

Similarly, whilst I am disabled, my disability does not mean that I require access to disabled toilets. So I don’t use those either.

People acting like it’s very confusing to work out which disabled person is entitled to what, or who takes precedence, are deliberately diverting the thread away from the actual issue, which is people with prams (that are not mobility buggies).

Exactly.

YANBU

I am so sorry this still happens. Bus companies really need to step up and empower their drivers to deal with these selfish and ignorant parents.

You shouldn't be having to do battle.

Wimbz20 · Today 10:34
My pram doesn't fold easily and I'm not going to hold a small baby in my arms with shopping - its dangerous. I sometimes wait for 2 or 3 buses to actually get on. So sorry I will not fold my buggy or get off. You'll just have to wait like the rest of us.

But every single thing you just said is your choice. You chose every one of those circumstances. It’s all about you, isn’t it.

A wheelchair user did not choose to use a wheelchair. It’s a necessity.

Who’s the selfish one?

I couldn’t imagine living a life where it’s all about me, what I want, and what I’m entitled to. This thread is starting to make me feel sick. I’m shocked at how self-centred some posters are, and I question what morals and values they will pass on to their children.

Its only going to get worse isn’t it?

I" can see your point and I sympathise, but at the same time I think some toddlers are safer and it's less stress and anxiety for the parent if the child/baby is secure in their pram/pushchair where they're not going to be constantly trying to wriggle off their parents laps and try stand up and run down the bus"

If a child is in a disability buggy that counts the same as a wheelchair but I don't think a young child in an ordinary buggy who wants to wriggle or run around is a good enough reason to not fold. I have a teenager with asd ( who still uses a disability buggy or wheelchair) and pre disability buggy he was in reins with a one handed fold buggy.

Better bus design
more frequent buses
better trained bus drivers
bus appropriate pushchairs
retailers and designers should label these.

When I used a pushchair it would annoy me to see a massive pushchair taking up two spaces.

Everyone is trying to get somewhere. Some have less choice than others. Bus users should work with this.

I dislike the comments about selfish mums and pushchairs. It was hard enough feeling isolated without being able to go anywhere on the bus. I of course would vacate or fold for a wheelchair user.

I dislike the comments about selfish mums and pushchairs

I dislike the behaviour of selfish mums and pushchairs.

@ChillysWaterBottle I haven’t seen people have a go at mums in a public space?

You need a key to get the disabled bogs anyway which anyone can apply for if they have a need that requires it. Perhaps a similar pass system for the priority seats would be beneficial

You have choices - you might not like them, but you have them. The wheelchair user does not.

You are a disgrace. Selfish and shameful.

@Scooby5kids Radar keys can be bought online, so mums with prams determined to use the wheelchair space would presumably just do that if such a system were created. Better to simply insist that buggy is folded before the parent boards the bus. Much easier to stop someone getting on than to remove them once they’re there.

Or better designed more frequent buses.

Then both users can travel.

Absolutely @Rummikub - parents should definitely be campaigning for that. In the meantime those using wheelchairs need to be able to access the spaces they won through their own campaign of several decades. They shouldn’t be prevented from doing so on the basis that an entirely new campaign is needed.

YANBU and I am so sorry this happens to you. Some people, lets face it, mainly mothers, appear to think the world revovles around them and their offspring.

Of course, pram users should be leaping up to allow a wheelchair user on. It is the most basic of morals. I rarely got the bus with my pram when mine were little for exactly this reason. Others needed the space more than me.

As a PP said I would absolutely fight your corner if I was on a bus and a pram user refused to get off.

People with prams aren't a protected characteristic.