to want to use the bus like everyone else?

[toddlertamer20]

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

Yeah, this is North Wales, not an urban area. There is a railing around the top which will stop anything slipping away.

Luckily, a passenger near the front shouts, loudly, "you do know you are breaking disability rights law, that is a priority space and you need to move your brats. Sorry if that means you may have to stop chatting bollocks to each other and parent them but tough".

More people need to speak up like this. Preferably using those exact words.

I thoroughly agree, it made me smile that he had the guts. I wished I could have but as I say I'm terrible with confrontation and I do wonder if they would have slunk off so easily if a female had told them off.

They were just rude, and I m glad he did stand up for the lady. She thanked him loads and was grinning! But the bus driver was shameful. I know it's a thankless task but that's why the law was brought in.

Part of the problem is buggy manufacturers know that they don't have to be folded to get them on the bus, so don't prioritise this. And how many people buying a buggy choose one on the basis that they are going to have to fold it on buses? I doubt it's many. Go back 30 years or so, before the Disability Discrimination Act meant that buses had to be accessible to people using wheelchairs, and being able to fold a buggy on a bus was important because you couldn't get them on without folding them.

Lots of people do have an extra light buggy for public transport, though, if they need to use it regularly.
There's no requirement to fold buggies on the tube, for example, but it's a hell of a lot easier to manoeuvre a light umbrella one than a big tank.

And how many people buying a buggy choose one on the basis that they are going to have to fold it on buses? I doubt it's many.

More fool them, then, really, if they're going to be using the bus a lot.

Hi, just wanted to update again.
Since making this post I've run into the usual trouble, nothing hugely major though. Until now. I tried to board a bus yesterday, we had been to the park and I had my tired and hungry children with me and we just wanted to get home like everyone else. I was told rudely by the driver that he was full as he had 2 prams (1 was a double). I told him that I needed to get the bus and could he ask them to move out of the way or fold so I could use the allocated wheelchair space. He refused and said they were there first. I did what some people advised on this thread, and videoed the whole thing. Typical london noone tried to help - to the contrary, I had able bodied people telling me that I was rude for asking for the space. Eventually the driver asked the buggies to fold. I say asked very losely as he actually just said 'does anyone want to move as she is insisting on getting on'. They said they could not fold. He closed the doors and left. I tried the next bus. 3 prams. Driver opened his cab and very patronisingly talked to me as 'Listen love, I can't just make them move. wheelchairs don't get priority anymore, it's just who gets here first'. I have him saying this on video. None of the pram people offered to fold. I told him this was the 2nd bus I missed because of prams. He said it wasn't his problem. He drove off. 3rd bus comes. You've guessed it. 3 buggies. By now there are also 3 more prams at my bus stop. The driver tells me she has 3 prams....so I asked if she could ask them to move out of the space as I need to go home and this is the 3rd bus that won't allow me to get on. She tells me they were there first and she can't ask them to leave. I said I didn't want them to leave just to make space for me to use the wheelchair area. She said no she can't as there's nowhere else for them to go. At this point another passenger gets involved and tells her she should ask them to fold. She says no she can't. So the passenger tries...none will fold but eventually one moves into the gangway leaving a small space between 2 prams. I was allowed on. I was on in the correct position and by now I was in tears. My wheelchair was backing the door and tipping dangerously every time we went around a corner. The 3 buggy users happily used the rest of the space and the seats nearby while I literally clung onto the bars. Is my chair has veered sideways it would have bashed into the baby next to me. My chair is very heavy, it is not safe.
I am so traumatised by this I think that I can no longer use buses. It's completely unfair and people are so incredibly selfish. I would post the videoes but not sure if I am allowed to on here.

so sorry you have had such an awful experience but sadly it’s not surprising. If you’re feeling strong enough send those clips to the bus company, maybe even post them on social media. Hopefully every complaint and comes a bit closer to getting proper change so people can safely travel.

your experience highlights my view that the wheelchair space should be closed off until needed by a wheelchair. Stop selfish insert word of choice preventing access for those who need it.

You need to complain to TfL. Get your MP, Assembly Members and Borough Councillors involved.

Other countries have much more space to accommodate both wheelchairs and prams, our buses pale in comparison. Can’t believe the shocking incidents you have faced though, most people would gladly fold a pram to allow a wheelchair user on.

Exactly this.

People choose to have kids, they don't choose to have disabilities.

Some do, most don't. Not so much on buses. They probably have more space on trains and of course trams.

The law sounds completely toothless when it comes to this. I agree with sending footage to the bus companies though.

This is the sort of story that should be picked up by the main stream media instead of the usual 'I broke my neighbour's fence' crap.
Hellooo... Daily Mail! Are you there?

Drivers seem to be being given totally the wrong message.

Not that you should have to, and it must be exhausting, but keep videoing and get your MP on board.

No doubt you know all about the 2017 court case. (I haven't read the whole thread, so it may have been mentioned. ) Basically, the supreme court ruled that the bus company could and should have done more to make a parent move their buggy. This was action beyond just asking. The drivers in your case aren't even asking. If you inform the company that based on the precedent of Paulley vs FirstGroup plc (2017) you intend to take action against the company, they might actually do something more than fob you off on the phone.

I agree with others who are saying complain. To the bus company, the the council, to your MP. Send them the video and threaten to put it on social media. You shouldn't have to do any of this, but the way you were treated is awful.

At this stage I wouldn't even be threatening to put the video on social media, it would be up there with newspapers and famous people with a good track record of standing up against discrimination tagged. There's a big disability rights crowd on twitter and I think a lot of journalists are on there too.

I did complain again last night. But it is totally pointless. I have their responses from past complaints saved - and they are all copy and paste jobs. Literally all identical. They just say they are sorry it happened.
I'm just defeated. I'm clearly not allowed to take my children out and have fun in the half term like other mums can.

Have you tried contacting the minister for disability and minister for transport?

How about the Consumer Champions working for the newspapers. Try Kate Morley at the Telegraph, she seems to be quite good at making big companies wake up.

The Association of British Commuters have done a lot of campaigning about accessibility on trains, might it be worth getting in touch with them to see if they can lobby about buses?

Failing all else, buy a pair of handcuffs and cuff yourself to the next bus to refuse you. Tip off a local reporter.

OP I wish someone in press would take up your story. They are making your life even harder

@toddlertamer20

i would be emailing Sadiq Khan direct

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-mayor-does/contact-city-hall-or-mayor

and send him the videos, and a note that you are happy to go to local newspapers etc

tbh I would be approaching newspapers as well

Sorry to hear about your experience yesterday.

I was on a TfL bus yesterday when a wheelchair user wanted to board. There was an automated announcement to clear the wheelchair space as they had priority(One of various announcements that played on that trip). People did move (but not completely clear the area). So some drivers know their responsibilities (but disappointingly not enough it seems)

I'm sorry to read this. What's wrong with people? Is it a southern thing?
Maybe it's because I'm from the north east but I've always folded up my pram for wheelchairs, let the elderly, disabled or pregnant sit in my seat and always say hello and thank you to the driver.
I remember as a kid I never give up my seat for an adult and got told off by my mam and nanna in front of the whole bus. Good manners were drilled into me.
I'd post the video on Facebook and tag the company in if I was you otherwise it's going to keep happening. Can you get a go pro and have it attached to your chest for next time?

Is there someway you can escalate it? Go to the media, or post it on twitter, or threaten to if you don't get a satisfactory response?

I am so sorry this is happening to you OP, it is a complete disgrace.

I really wish I lived close to you as I would be coming on bus journeys with you and having words with the bus drivers and passengers who refuse to move.

Please take this further - go to your local MP, the Government, the local/national newspapers, social media etc, anyone who might be able to help you. It is hard enough for many people with disabilities to manage everyday things, never mind them having it made harder by people who should know better.