to want to use the bus like everyone else?

[toddlertamer20]

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

... but are you willing to pay for any of those in your bus fare? No.
... are you willing to accept the consequence government paying for all the extra busses and bus drivers (which is more inflation)? No.

Everyone wants and believes they should get more, but no-one is willing to pay for it. That’s called an entitlement mentality, and that’s the whole problem in a nutshell.

Actually I would pay extra in taxes and fares.

It all leads to the greater good.

Less cars
More community
Less isolation

When I did use the bus regularly I got to know people, have a conversation, much better for my mental health and well being.
As I stated previously I would fold or vacate for a wheelchair user.

Rummikub · Today 13:04
Actually I would pay extra in taxes and fares.

So would* *I but we are in the minority. Just watch the outpouring of woe is me entitlement pushback.

Yeah! I checked as we are in the market for a new buggy myself and thought it sounded too good to be true, the cheapest ones I could find were £150ish.

Didn't know that. But they could do a disability pass through the bus company that you had to apply for that required a proof of disability Then the bus driver could say with confidence that if you don't have a pass then you have to fold your buggy or move. It's the only way they can enforce it really because the bus drivers will not want to get into a debate over who needs the space more. They're not currently enforcing anything. It might be law, but it might as well not be if it's not enforced.

I do still stand by my comments that any disabled person or disabled child should be allowed to use the space also though. Autism is a protected characteristic and real disability and every autistic person is affected differently. I know I'm getting roasted and thrown over the coals by Mumsnet, but I don't care. If a disabled person without a wheelchair feels they don't need it then also good for them. The same if someone else's child with disabilities doesn't need the space-that's great! But it shouldn't be a contest between who is most disabled. It shouldn't be a case of "Well I can do it so can you" because everyone is different.

The bus companies need to stop people who don't need the spaces (the people and children who are not disabled) taking the space up with bikes and buggies etc and I think that would solve the problem. Disabled children probably only make up for a small number anyway.

I’m disabled and this thread is typical of why I don’t use public transport any more. It’s less stressful to not bother going out unless I can be driven or take a taxi somewhere.

know I'm getting roasted and thrown over the coals by Mumsnet, but I don't care. If a disabled person without a wheelchair feels they don't need it then also good for them. The same if someone else's child with disabilities doesn't need the space-that's great! But it shouldn't be a contest between who is most disabled. It shouldn't be a case of "Well I can do it so can you" because everyone is different
It's like talking to a fucking brick wall 🤦‍♀️
It's a wheelchair space, not a disabled space.
If you can't wrap your head around that I don't know why you think we need to be treated to your endless diatribes on the subject.
You're just plain wrong.

@Scooby5kids But it shouldn't be a contest between who is most disabled.

Wheelchair spaces exist because the precise nature of the durability means that without that exact space, they cannot use the service.

If there is a need for people with autism to have their own space, then I hope that the advocacy groups campaign to have a second disabled space in which there is no priority given to any particular access needs.

What can’t be done is taking the one which currently exists for wheelchair users. It doesn’t matter what you believe, or what you think should happen or not happen - it’s the legal system that exists. The fact that it isn’t being properly enforced is a travesty, not an excuse to open up the criteria or dilute the provision down.

disability, not durability, obviously.

Why? I have to commute with my baby and this would be ridiculous. I would always move for a wheelchair obv.

And you're bringing the next generation up, god help us all.

Also there’s no need for passes and whatnot - because the decision has already been made as to priority, and no assessment of disability is required. Wheelchair users take priority. If a pram/buggy isn’t a disability buggy (a child wheelchair) then it is automatically of lower priority than the wheelchair and must be folded or removed.

My proposed system that the pram is folded at the start of the journey shouldn’t even be necessary. It’s only necessary because some parents can’t get their heads around not being the most important person on the bus.

You can get a cheap easily foldable umbrella stroller for when you need to use public transport then surely? That plus a back lack would solve that issue.

@CherLloydbyCherLloyd

I just had a quick look on eBay and there are a fair few in the 40-70 price point - obviously depends on where you live but fingers crossed.

I had very big children and both have additional needs so I need pushchairs that worked for big kids for a while and was easily manoeuvre-able and it was really good

When my children were wee, it was mandatory to fold your buggy before you boarded the bus - there were no accessible spaces. So we all used lightweight umbrella fold buggies for public transport. Wow - our babies survived and thrived.

Now wheelchair users have fought for accessible buses, it enrages me that entitled parents think they can take up that space with their oversized baby chariots they are apparantly incapable of folding. Get an umbrella fold pushchair for the bus and leave the wheelchair spaces for wheelcairs.

I would be pushing for my child to have transport (especially with her having SEN) or learning to drive- if possible- and leasing a car through Motability OP. It’s seriously appalling and not good enough (the bus service) but it won’t change whilst you need it and it’s therefore completely understandably making you miserable. So I’d be doing what I can to highlight this publicly but finding a way I can also manage without the bus.

it really isn’t good enough though. I genuinely don’t know how those in wheelchairs manage, it’s appalling how little disabled people are considered in public spaces and I admire you immensely for trying your best and trying to do right by your children.

Ok but it would be the same for child in a SEN buggy. Not all kids are in a sen buggy because they can't walk, many are in them to keep them safe in public, to stop them running off and causing injury to themselves. For some children, being taken out of the buggy would mean that they wouldn't be safe using this service either! Why does nobody understand what I'm trying to explain? This is honestly so upsetting. I feel as a mother of kids with special needs we have to fight and justify everything. We can't even go to the supermarket without causing a child distress and people looking at us judging our parenting. I bet half of you people saying get your child onto your knee would be the first to start moaning when you're listening to high pitch screaming, having your chair kicked and something launched at your head from behind by an kid having a meltdown. Getting off the bus isn't always a good option either and would probably lead to more upset, confusion and meltdown from the child. Honestly, I've had days where giving a child the wrong colour cup ruined their entire day! It's just one thing after another. Why can't anyone just have some compassion for little kids that struggle?

If you lived in the North, you'd experience more patience, empathy, compassion and kindness from people regarding this issue.

Just saying

@Scooby5kids with the greatest of respect this isn't a disability competition.

The wheelchair space on a bus is for WHEELCHAIR USERS.

Not prams.

Not disabled adults without mobility issues.

Not SEN kids.

WHEELCHAIR USERS.

IT IS ENSHRINED IN LAW THAT THAT IS A SPACE FOR WHEELCHAIR USERS.

Why are YOU not taking that in!?

You can win as despite her response you did the right thing.

I'm sure only a complete asshole would judge you for how long you take to get on the bus.

My disabled child feels like you at times and I told them they have as much right to be in this world as anyone else.

@Scooby5kids I can see that this thread is upsetting you and it must be very hard, but the answer to that is not to take spaces not designated for you and then accuse everyone else of being ableist.

If the buggy is a wheelchair then the space is for the person using it. If not then it isn’t, and no amount of “my child will have a meltdown” is justification. The answer is to campaign for a separate space. That is rubbish, but wheelchair user advocacy groups campaigned for decades to get this space and it’s not OK for another group - even a group for other disabled people - to take it and tell wheelchair users to go back to the drawing board..

It's a wheelchair space. Unless a child is in a buggy designated as one that has parity with a wheelchair, the wheelchair user has priority. Anyone else should move to accommodate them. Other disabilities don't alter that fact.

This isn't to do with cups, or people judging you in the supermarket.

You can't use a wheelchair space, because it's for wheelchairs. This isn't complicated.

IT'S A WHEELCHAIR SPACE. A SPACE FOR WHEELCHAIRS.

Sorry for shouting but the message just doesn't seem to get through to some people.