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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to use the bus like everyone else?

454 replies

toddlertamer20 · 10/02/2023 22:47

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

OP posts:
CherLloydbyCherLloyd · 11/02/2023 10:28

sashh · 11/02/2023 10:22

It wouldn't cost you any more if you did not use the space though would it?

People are already refusing to move. You already have a buggy that folds. Why is it so difficult to not use that space?

Show quote history

If the space is empty, then I can use it. If the space isn’t empty, I wouldn’t. Im
not normally travelling at peak times, and I travel in a “weird” direction (I’m heading away from the town centre in the morning when most commuters are heading in) - it would be very inconvenient for me to carry my own work bag which includes my laptop and often several classes worth of jotters, my daughters school bag, my sons nappy bag, my one year old (who can’t yet walk) and the buggy itself.

Obviously I do it if there are other people on the bus, but to do all that on an otherwise empty/minimally busy bus is ridiculous.

TrashyPanda · 11/02/2023 10:29

wheelchair spaces on buses should always be vacated if required by a person in a wheelchair/child in a SN buggy. Because that is who the space is for. All other arguments about shopping, babies, non-folding pushchairs are irrelevant.

and the reason why a person in a wheelchair is on a bus is also irrelevant. Buses are public transport and they are members of the public. They do not need to explain why they are on a bus. They are probably going to work/to an appointment etc, just like all the other bus users.

Xol · 11/02/2023 10:29

RoomOfRequirement · 11/02/2023 09:44

YANBU. I think it's really unfair that buses put people in this position.

Its always 2 disadvantaged groups who have to fight for everything and in this scenario its pitting women with young children (because let's face it, it's almost always women) against disabled people.

Of course the pushchairs need to move, but bus companies should do better and make more space available so BOTH of these groups can use the service they're paying for. I imagine it's also difficult to wrangle a baby, another child, putting down a pushchair and any bags you may have, especially if that mother ALSO has to be somewhere which is why they chose thtlar bus. Not impossible in the same way it would be to not use the wheelchair (which of course is why they must have priority) but really hard. And 'well we always used to manage' isn't a reason to force others to now.

The problem with that is that it can only be achieved by having fewer seats on the ground floor, which instantly disadvantages the elderly and mobile people with disabilities. It's an incredibly difficult balance to strike.

Xol · 11/02/2023 10:31

Winterday1991 · 11/02/2023 09:46

Everyone saying to fold the pushchair. Mine does not easily fold, and is also not really a lot smaller once folded. Added to that if I have shopping in the basket and a baby to carry, it would be impossible to fold. Folding is just not feasible. Luckily I Dont need to take the bus often!

You've unfortunately made a poor choice of pushchair, which other people shouldn't be penalised for.

Rummikub · 11/02/2023 10:31

Buses should be designed with fold up seats so pushchairs can be accommodated leaving the wheelchair space free.

When i had the pushchair I remember using such a bus- it made things much easier and accessible for everyone.

SpinningFloppa · 11/02/2023 10:32

Rummikub · 11/02/2023 10:31

Buses should be designed with fold up seats so pushchairs can be accommodated leaving the wheelchair space free.

When i had the pushchair I remember using such a bus- it made things much easier and accessible for everyone.

I imagine people would refuse to move out the seats though…

Wimbz20 · 11/02/2023 10:34

My pram doesn't fold easily and I'm not going to hold a small baby in my arms with shopping - its dangerous. I sometimes wait for 2 or 3 buses to actually get on. So sorry I will not fold my buggy or get off. You'll just have to wait like the rest of us.

Samcro · 11/02/2023 10:37

RoomOfRequirement · 11/02/2023 09:44

YANBU. I think it's really unfair that buses put people in this position.

Its always 2 disadvantaged groups who have to fight for everything and in this scenario its pitting women with young children (because let's face it, it's almost always women) against disabled people.

Of course the pushchairs need to move, but bus companies should do better and make more space available so BOTH of these groups can use the service they're paying for. I imagine it's also difficult to wrangle a baby, another child, putting down a pushchair and any bags you may have, especially if that mother ALSO has to be somewhere which is why they chose thtlar bus. Not impossible in the same way it would be to not use the wheelchair (which of course is why they must have priority) but really hard. And 'well we always used to manage' isn't a reason to force others to now.

why not campaign for it. you know like disabled people did.
I wish they would just not let parents use the space full stop.

LangClegsInSpace · 11/02/2023 10:37

YANBU OP, I hope you sued when your arm was broken.

CherLloydbyCherLloyd · 11/02/2023 10:38

Xol · 11/02/2023 10:31

You've unfortunately made a poor choice of pushchair, which other people shouldn't be penalised for.

Show quote history

It’s really difficult to find an easy to fold pushchair which is suitable for a baby under 6 months, especially if you have a small child. Most of the folding ones don’t have lie flat function which means they can’t be used safely by newborns due to positional asphyxia. A lot of other ones are cost prohibitive, and those using the bus may be doing so because they can’t afford a car.

LangClegsInSpace · 11/02/2023 10:39

sashh · 11/02/2023 09:23

I keep saying on these threads, and I keep being told I am unreasonable but there should be a £10 charge for using that space if you are not a wheelchair user or using a SEN buggy.

This is unreasonable but they could introduce fines for refusing to vacate the space.

Merryoldgoat · 11/02/2023 10:41

I agree with you OP - you are of course NBU but there needs to be a solution that you can manage with for your sake.

Do you get DLA for your daughter? Is it a specialist school with transport? Do any close by friends drive and can offer a lift a couple of times a week?

Also, how old is your daughter? How able is she? Is there a chance she could get the bus herself at some point?

It must be so stressful.

NeverHadANickname · 11/02/2023 10:41

Kanaloa · 10/02/2023 22:59

To be honest public transport in the UK can just be awful. When we visit family in the US not only are the buses incredibly cheap, there is space for 2 buggies or prams plus a wheelchair. Plus you never see people crammed in like sardines.

I’m surprised this happens to you so often though - I must say I’ve never seen it happen. Most people either fold their pram or get off. Is it very regular?

That entirely depends on where you are. I live in the US and would have to travel probably an hour in any direction to find a place that has busses or even trains. Taxis aren't even a thing where I am really although I think there might be 1 Uber driver in the area now.

YANBU OP, people should be more considerate. Maybe a phone call to the bus company and ask for more signs put up?

CherLloydbyCherLloyd · 11/02/2023 10:41

SpinningFloppa · 11/02/2023 10:32

I imagine people would refuse to move out the seats though…

Show quote history

They have them where I am on all buses. There is a wheelchair space which has the padded back plate, an accessible stop button, and a rail. In front of it, and opposite it, there are three foldable seats for buggies, or standing passengers. There is a sign up saying that people are required to give up those seats for “those who may need it” and there are pictures of pregnant ladies, people with sticks, and maybe small children?
I’ve never seen an issue with those seats being used and I’m a very regular bus user.

kagerou · 11/02/2023 10:42

@toddlertamer20 , or anyone else who uses wheelchairs and the bus, can I ask you this question (and I mean it genuinely not to stir)

But would you accept a pram staying on unfolded if the mother had a genuine disability related reason as to why they couldn't fold it and hold their child on the bus?

I have MS and as part of that it causes numbness, clumsiness and balance issues. I find it very hard to fold up and put back my pram in the first place so that would be an issue. Added to that I wouldn't feel safe holding my daughter on a moving bus (even on a seat in case there was a sharp turn and I dropped her)

I don't use buses very often but whenever I've had to I've been terrified of a wheelchair coming on for this reason and I'm not sure what I would have to do in that case (especially as I only use buses when i absolutely have to be somewhere and have no one to drive me too)

CherLloydbyCherLloyd · 11/02/2023 10:42

LangClegsInSpace · 11/02/2023 10:39

This is unreasonable but they could introduce fines for refusing to vacate the space.

Show quote history

They chuck you off the bus where I am, which seems reasonable.

Merryoldgoat · 11/02/2023 10:42

@CherLloydbyCherLloyd

i got one on eBay for £40

CherLloydbyCherLloyd · 11/02/2023 10:43

Merryoldgoat · 11/02/2023 10:42

@CherLloydbyCherLloyd

i got one on eBay for £40

What one?

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 11/02/2023 10:44

Wimbz20 · 11/02/2023 10:34

My pram doesn't fold easily and I'm not going to hold a small baby in my arms with shopping - its dangerous. I sometimes wait for 2 or 3 buses to actually get on. So sorry I will not fold my buggy or get off. You'll just have to wait like the rest of us.

You will have to get off or the bus driver could throw you off, as he should. Wheelchair users are a higher priority than people like you.

NormasJeans · 11/02/2023 10:46

More frequent buses during school drop off and pick up times would help. The bus I get to do the school run doesn’t have a changed timetable and there aren’t double deckers during these peak times. I would potentially be happy to pay a small additional charge for using buses at these times, if the timetable was altered so they were more frequent when needed.

Slings aren’t always an option. I was unable to use one, due to a hip problem.

Rummikub · 11/02/2023 10:47

SpinningFloppa · 11/02/2023 10:32

I imagine people would refuse to move out the seats though…

Show quote history

Yes it does require a sharing mindset. It helped that the seats weren’t comfortable so generally not first choice.

I chose my pushchair with bus travel in mind. And picked one with one hand fold. It still wasn’t easy. But I appreciated what the order of need was and abided by it.

It’s clearly an issue that bus companies need to improve. Especially if the idea is more bus users and less cars.

Merryoldgoat · 11/02/2023 10:47

@CherLloydbyCherLloyd

Silvercross Pop

Parker231 · 11/02/2023 10:48

Winterday1991 · 11/02/2023 09:46

Everyone saying to fold the pushchair. Mine does not easily fold, and is also not really a lot smaller once folded. Added to that if I have shopping in the basket and a baby to carry, it would be impossible to fold. Folding is just not feasible. Luckily I Dont need to take the bus often!

If your buggy can’t fold you would need to be ready to get off the bus if a wheelchair user got on. You could then get another bus.

Mueslikid · 11/02/2023 10:50

You always had to fold when I was growing up, but buses usually had a conductor who would stow the pushchair away for you and probably also get it off onto the pavement for you when you were leaving.

I used to have a lightweight folding pushchair just for public transport, I always found manhandling the bigger pram a nightmare. I stopped using a pushchair at all once Dc turned 2, just because it was such a nuisance on the bus and train. I got adept at carrying a sleeping toddler and shopping bags off the bus.
Wheelchair users should always have priority, and buses should be better designed - so much better when you can get on and off in the spacious middle section instead of everyone squeezing past the driver.

Parker231 · 11/02/2023 10:50

kagerou · 11/02/2023 10:42

@toddlertamer20 , or anyone else who uses wheelchairs and the bus, can I ask you this question (and I mean it genuinely not to stir)

But would you accept a pram staying on unfolded if the mother had a genuine disability related reason as to why they couldn't fold it and hold their child on the bus?

I have MS and as part of that it causes numbness, clumsiness and balance issues. I find it very hard to fold up and put back my pram in the first place so that would be an issue. Added to that I wouldn't feel safe holding my daughter on a moving bus (even on a seat in case there was a sharp turn and I dropped her)

I don't use buses very often but whenever I've had to I've been terrified of a wheelchair coming on for this reason and I'm not sure what I would have to do in that case (especially as I only use buses when i absolutely have to be somewhere and have no one to drive me too)

In your case you would have had to get off the bus if a wheelchair user wanted to get on.