to want to use the bus like everyone else?

[toddlertamer20]

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

Then, unless they are in the buggy equivalent of a wheelchair, they must leave the bus.

I can see your point and I sympathise, but at the same time I think some toddlers are safer and it's less stress and anxiety for the parent if the child/baby is secure in their pram/pushchair where they're not going to be constantly trying to wriggle off their parents laps and try stand up and run down the bus. I have two kids with ASD and I know for a fact that it would have been so stressful and cause me anxiety if I had taken them on the bus with no pushchair. I very rarely use the bus but on the times I did I kept them in their buggies. The end of the day it's first come first served, unless they state that it's not in some areas. You're not the only person with needs, not everyone else's needs are obvious and visible. Not every child can sit still and quiet on the bus on their parents knee. I think if people have older toddlers that are capable of this then they should fold their prams, but I don't think it's up to people to judge other people's personal circumstances and say "That child doesn't need to sit in the pram!" I do think that the bus companies should make more wheelchair/ pushchair/standing space though because 2 places isn't enough.

You should share the space, fold the buggy or move
You may not continue to fully occupy the space to the exclusion of the wheelchair user.
Read it properly before proclaiming your God given right to occupy space designated for wheelchairs.

I think they should have the same legal protection as blue badge spaces.

It’s a FAVOUR to parents to also be able to use that space IF ITS NOT NEEDED. The person the space was designed and intended for takes priority. Everytime.

But entitled parents abuse this and refuse to live and behave as if they are equally entitled to the space. They are NOT equally entitled to it, under any circumstance.

Time to revoke the perk then I think. You abused it and prevented the people it was designed and intended for from using it.

So you should lose it. I’d rather see that space left empty most of the time than see a wheelchair user who is already facing more barrier and challenges to living their life as they would like than most of could ever imagine - being left on the side of the road.

Agree with you. But be careful for voicing your opinion. They MN keyboard warriors are about to descend on you.

"The end of the day it's first come first served"

Except it isn't. There are notices up stating that wheelchair users have priority and if you have a pram you must move if a wheelchair user needs it.

The bus I get to work in London is a single decker with seats at the back and the rest is standing space apart from I think 3 seats for people unable to stand. It's intended as a way of cramming as many commuters on as possible but also works well when people with push chairs and wheelchairs need to share the space.

I absolutely agree that wheelchair users need the space. It is annoying though that able bodied people without pushchairs (or any other encumbrances like dogs or big suitcases or tool trolleys for work) are never required to make an effort like standing or going upstairs on double deckers. It's always the ones having a difficult time whose lives are made more difficult!

Do try it and tell us how well that plays out with the other passengers. And how it gets you to your destination.

I emailed TfL about these buses years ago and got such a condescending response. Buses are not designed by or for the people I see using them in SE London: wheelchair users (one space per bus! I’ve seen a couple who have to split up to travel on consecutive buses, wherever they go!) many mums with prams, elderly people who use their shopping trolleys as walking aids. Many people needing to transport substantial quantities of groceries etc home.

OP: I am so sorry you’ve been treated so appallingly. The different routes have different cultures ime, and it is worth complaining each time this happens, if you’ve the energy to. Outrageous that getting a bus has to be so stressful for you.

If there is a designated wheelchair space, it is not first come first served as between the wheelchair user and the buggy user: it's wheelchair comes first every time. If you needed to keep your children in their buggy, you should have been prepared to take them off the bus if a wheelchair user got on.

There you are - for those people who say they've never seen it happen; here's someone who thinks it's perfectly fine!
London (I lived there for years, including with a baby) can be a bit survival of the fittest, especially at busy times. I think that's when the drivers don't bother.
The very first time I got a bus with my newborn (feeling nervous - sounds daft once you've done it a few times I know!) a wheelchair user needed the space and I got ready to get off. It's just how it is. In fact she had quite a slimline chair and offered to share the space.

Not where I live! I was never asked to move. If a child has a need to stay in the buggy and their parent was in first then they should be allowed to stay in the buggy. Either that or listen to the kid have a ear splitting meltdown while the parent is wrestling to keep them on their knee kicking and screaming. It's hardly fair subjected everyone to that is it? Autism is also a disability and unfortunately it's not always diagnosed for a few years

There you are - for those people who say they've never seen it happen; here's someone who thinks it's perfectly fine!

I hope you didn't mean me, I don't think it's fine at all.

No I was talking to you effectively if that makes sense; talking about the person you were quoting.

But it's a wheelchair space? Not a disabled seat.

And that's more important than a wheelchair user needing the space? The spaces they fought for? If you want space for your prams then lobby the bus companies for more space. Don't take the space from wheelchair users. You can fold your pram. What do they do?

But those aren't the only alternatives, are they? The child can simply be taken off the bus.

Toddlers may be safer in their buggy but if a wheelchair user gets on the bus you would need to get off and wait for the next bus

This is obviously not ok.

The only thing I want to add, and this is a very unique situation which I totally appreciate; but I have a disabled toddler who uses a ‘buggy’ it’s a special larger one but most people just assume it’s a buggy so I’m situations like this I always feel really self conscious as it looks like I’m just not moving my buggy but that’s not the case at all. I also have a younger baby (20 months) who is not disabled so I can’t remove my toddler and hold him a) as it’s not safe for him and b) because I’m already having to hold/care for her.

I do feel that the wording surrounding ‘wheelchair priority’ is a little unfair in this situation as many many families of disabled children choose to use specially modified or specially built mobility aids which often do just look like big fancy jogging pushchairs. I think, in my opinion, that a disabled child is not less entitled to use the wheelchair space on busses than an adult wheelchair user but it’s always such a contentious issue.

I do hope you're a troll but unfortunate I've seen plenty of entitled shits like you out in the wild.

Why should someone with a buggy take priority over a wheelchair user? The space on the bus is for wheelchair users.

It’s a super hard one for me, yes black and white the prams should be folded down and space given to a wheelchair user. And I most definitely would if I was a pram user.

However I would be stressed and would appreciate help from others. If we had a community who helped more it would make this situation easier. Folding a pram down isn’t always easy if you have two kids, shopping and a little one who can’t sit up. Holding a baby and folding a pram with a toddler would be a nightmare. If the bus driver said let me give you a hand or a person sat on the bus but I have a feeling that doesn’t happen.

I also have a friend with a disabled child who uses a disabled pram. While they can come out the pram it would be dangerous as a non verbal with learning disabilities.

Guess what I’m saying is it’s not always black and white.

@Parker231 the way I see it if there are two disabled people the disabled adult should wait over a disabled child. Sorry not sorry 🤷‍♀️

Autism is also a disability and unfortunately it's not always diagnosed for a few years
This is flabbergasting!
The wheelchair space is for physically disabled people - those who can't walk independently. Not for blind people, deaf people, autistic people, or any people who are physically mobile.
Why would anyone capable of sitting in a seat take priority over someone confined to their wheelchair?

If the disabled child is in a wheelchair they have an equal right to the wheelchair space as a wheelchair user adult. The priority space is for wheelchair users, not disabled.