to want to use the bus like everyone else?

[toddlertamer20]

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

Priority obviously lies with the wheelchair user. The buggy user takes the risk that, if they use the wheelchair space, they may have to get off and wait for the next bus.

@hekissedmybottom Sorry, you are correct. I misread the post by @theoldcatsmells

The people who are talking about their right to bulk shop with a buggy over a wheelchair user on a bus - what the fuck are you on?? You do the same as everyone else without a buggy, shop what you can carry/with a granny trolley. You do not have right to use to use wheelchair space to store your aldi haul, for christ sake. YOU HAVE THE SAME RIGHT AS A WHEELCHAIR USER - to use the space you require to ride the bus, not to take your whole kitchen with you.

people are mental. The very fact we have a law in place is because of selfish, entitled pram users.

OP, i am sorry you have to deal with this fuckery!! It outrages me!!

If you need to bulk shop, then the bus is not for you.

Walk there, get a taxi back.
Bus there with a small foldable buggy, get a taxi back.
Order it online - guarantee if you live on a fucking bus route, you live where online shopping can be delivered.
Send someone else to get it.
Go there in your car.
Don't do a big shop at all, just shop every few days with a rucksack and small foldable buggy, as many many people had to do when fewer people drove and deliveries weren't a thing.
Hire* a car once a month to do a massive bulk shop.

So so many options.

*admittedly, the person who did that lived in Japan where car hire could be done by 15min slots, but even so a car hire in the UK for one day can be under £20 for the full day!

Whilst I completely agree with OP, I don't think it's for anyone else to decide how and when I'm allowed to use the bus because I'm just a stupid Mom with a buggy who must by default be in the wrong. Because I'm not collapsing my double buggy regardless. I can move or get off whether I've got one bag or 6.

Exactly. Had a driver just sit calmly at the bus stop mid route cos three adults got on without paying. They roughed it out for all of 5 minutes. No drama, the driver simply said I won't move til you pay or get off then sat in his cabin. They got off. If people actually believed drivers would enforce it, they'd be less inclined to say no.

I don't do 'bulk shops'. I get a weekly veg box, I buy stuff daily as and when I need it, occasionally I get deliveries.

What I don't do is think I have the right to take up a wheelchair space with my shopping.

But non-payers is a different situation to recalcitrant buggy owners. While wheelchairs have legal priority to the wheelchair space, and buggy owners can be asked to move, or fold their buggies, they can’t be made to do so, and nor can they be made to leave the bus. I do think all buggy owners should be at least be prepared to fold them before getting on the bus in general and that people should only buy buggies that are easily folded for use on public transport. When I bought mine, it was the main thing I thought about -could I fold it with one hand, carry it and a child at the same time, and then unfold it? Anything that looks like a “pram”, or a “travel system” shouldn’t be allowed on a bus.

In both cases, bus drivers can and do refuse to move until the offender has left the bus.

Yes and that’s what they should do. Stay put till space is made.
Its actually interesting that drivers/ bus companies won’t enforce wheelchair spaces but ensure they get their bus fares.

No, I was looking at TFL and it’s very specific that buggy users will not be asked to leave the bus.

How are TfL getting away with that then?

And it's also very clear that they have to fold their buggies up and vacate the wheelchair space by law

All buses have a wheelchair space available. By law, wheelchair users have priority over the space as it is the only place they can travel safely. When a wheelchair user is not using the space, you can use it on a first come first served basis.

If a wheelchair user wishes to board a bus, you should share the space, fold your buggy or move. You will not be asked to leave the bus, but you may choose to do so. If you wish to board the next bus instead, the driver will issue you a transfer ticket so you don't need to pay a double fare.

Ah, you quoted the bit I was looking at too. But notice it says you “should” fold, etc, not that you “must”. And you cannot be made to leave the bus.

But you do have to leave the wheelchair space, unless it can be safely shared with the wheelchair user. Why are you you continuing to argue this?

But that's only if they fold. If they refuse to fold, they can be (and ime often are) kicked off. The driver doesn't have to do anything, just refuse to move until space is made for the wheelchair. I've never seen this not do the trick.

But where does it say that? It doesn’t. I’m really quite shocked at TFL’s stance here, and I think it’s worded deliberately like that. The onus is entirely on the pushchair owner to “do the right thing”. It makes it clear that TFL will have nothing to do with it and won’t get involved.

Aah ok that makes more sense.
So the driver should wait till Space is made- however it’s made.
If there were standing passengers in the wheelchair space and the bus was full wonder what happens.

The same. The driver tells them to move and waits until they do

If the driver is doing their job, any buggy user refusing to fold will be kicked off. Same as fare dodgers, abusive passengers and drunks. I've travelled extensively on London buses and drivers don't confront the passengers in question, they just announce over the loudspeaker that the bus isn't going anywhere until they get off.

Even if there is no other space on the bus for them?

Nonsense. I used my buggies for more than just catching the bus, so whilst a flimsy fold up might be easy on the bus, it wouldn't be suitable for getting pretty young twins across bus, train, train, bus and back again to go on holiday, with a decent weight on the handle bars. I have neither the space or money for more than one system.

I also might need to get a taxi back which is safer if I detach the two car seats and fit them than if I try to carry two very new babies on my lap with the umbrella buggy folded away.

Lots of perfectly capable adults can decide what pushchair is safest for their child, and use the bus responsibility.

Experiences like ops means they're should be more pressure to enforce rules, to change rules, to make it less acceptable to flout etc.

Not to treat any parent with a young child as if we're all thick selfish dick heads.

Anyone occupying the wheelchair space should move / make room if required by a wheelchair user.

You don't understand what you are reading. It doesn't say you don't have to vacate the space. It says you have a choice between folding the buggy and staying on the bus, or not folding the buggy and getting off the bus.

All buses have a wheelchair space available. By law, wheelchair users have priority over the space as it is the only place they can travel safely.

Yes. Which part of "By law, wheelchair users have priority over the space as it is the only place they can travel safely." don't you get?