to want to use the bus like everyone else?

[toddlertamer20]

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

@toddlertamer20 Op, you seem to be incredibly patient and kind .

Even when I was growing up, I vaguely remember there were campaigns for wheelchair users to have access to public transport. And I also remember that prams used to be either more smaller or the focus would be to make it easy to fold and carry as parents couldn’t just board the bus with their prams.

But now that it’s become commonplace to have space for wheelchairs, it seems to be that focus on pram designs seem less on folding and carrying etc.

I sometimes wonder if some parents feel more entitled to the wheelchair spaces for this reason. They feel that their pram can’t be folded so easily or even if it’s folded, it’s still too big and unwieldy. If parents are finding this a common occurrence, I feel as though they too should campaign and raise awareness of the necessity to have easily foldable prams and push chairs that don’t take up too much space on this bus aisles. That way there’d hopefully be fewer grumpy parents who would have to get off the bus because of the lack of space from their massive strollers or would hopefully reduce the likelihood of people refusing do so or to move up etc. I think if it was more easier and convenient to have foldable ergonomic prams it might make things easier for parents in the long run.

Give up. The people who stubbornly don’t get this are just obtuse and picking a fight because they enjoy it.

I sometimes wonder if some parents feel more entitled to the wheelchair spaces for this reason. They feel that their pram can’t be folded so easily or even if it’s folded, it’s still too big and unwieldy. If parents are finding this a common occurrence, I feel as though they too should campaign and raise awareness of the necessity to have easily foldable prams and push chairs that don’t take up too much space on this bus aisles.

People why buy buggies that you cannot fold for public transport when they have such a large selection to choose from, are no different to parents why buy Chelsea Tractors to do the school run in. It’s arrogance and narcissism over utility and consideration for those around them, and one way or another the attitudes put forward in this thread towards wheelchair users is passed on tho their kids by example.

We need to stop parents teaching their kids that wheelchair users are a burden and should be ignored or vilified. It’s just wrong. If you have reached adulthood and haven’t learned how civil society works, that explains why our communities just gets more and more fragmented.

Do you actually have priority though? I'm just asking. It seems incredulous to me that someone with a pram would be forced to get off the bus so you could get on.
I do think that if eg a buggy could 'reasonably' be folded that the person should offer to do so, be asked to do so or be ejected however that requires a judgement call for what's reasonable. I don't think it's reasonable to eg ask a mother with 2 children (one in a buggy) and shopping bags to do so. It would put them at physical risk. In that case I would expect you to wait for the next bus just like the person with a pram might have to do at the next stop if you were using the last space.

Read the thread. Of course op has priority. By law.

Of course a wheelchair user has priority. What an appalling post.

yes, wheelchair users have priority, by law. Thwe space is actually there for wheelchair users so that they can access transport. It is not a buggy area but buggies are OK to use it until a wheelchair user needs it. It also isn't a disabled area, it's specifically for wheelchair users. I am not unreasonable and don't mind waiting my turn, although technically I don't really have to? But when it's bus after bus after bus and I cna use only one single spot on the bus, it becomes very frustrating and upsetting. It also makes me feel like a really rubbish mum when I'm late to get my daughter when I left way earlier than I even needed to.

Why on earth are you appalled? I asked a question. Do wheelchair users have priority. By that I meant the transport providers policy or even stator law. I don't know, thats why i asked. There's no judgement.
You've said "Of course" as if it's obvious. It's clearly not obvious from OPs experiences.

I agree with Sooty. The owners of said buggy can fold their buggy. Op cannot fold her wheelchair and should not be waiting for several buses and a space. Doing so actually gives these parents the belief they have equal rights to access this space.

They’re appalled because you couldn’t be bothered reading the other posts in the thread where it’s been discussed ad infinitum and they have to repeat on every page what purpose of the wheelchair space is for.

It's very obvious from all the posts of the thread that have said so.

OK hands up, I'm guilty of not reading every post (sure I'm not the first) but irritating might be a more appropriate word than appalled! I'm am now googling my local bys services policy.

I'm talking about when I'm already on the bus and am folding my buggy to make space for a wheelchair user coming on. If I'm waiting for a bus, I'll usually get the next one or jump in a taxi.

I didn’t bother. There is a difference between company policy which will probably say drivers are not to intervene in customer disputes or leave their cabs or get into confrontations with customers, and what the lay actually says the bus company mascot provide.

The simple solution is to ask people to move or leave the bus. If they don’t stop the bus service and phone the police. People will eventually leave of their own free will once they’ve been sat on a bus for 45 minutes going no-where because some jumped up buggy owner refuses to allow a wheelchair user on the bus.

You may end up with a few bus routes that have to no because of militant extremists who believe wheelchair users should have their rights removed, but those types of communities will just end up with no services because of the minority of buggy users who hate that frequent them.

The rest of the routes will learn to live and be kind and considerate to one another. It’s always the minority who are steadfast in trying to ruin life for the rest of us. We see the same behaviour in many aspects of the world these days. Education, safe spaces, women’s rights. But they never look at what they do, or say, or post online and see that they are acting the exact same way about their bailiwick. They’ll condemn an idiot that glues himself to the road, but they’ll happily stop a wheelchair user from using a wheelchair space.... because entitlement. Go figure how FU that thinking is.

But why are you getting on the bus at all with an unfolded buggy? You fold it at the bus stop every time. I went with my DC on the bus all the time, and you had to fold the buggy before you got on -it didn’t matter if there were no wheelchair passengers.

You get on the bus with an unfolded buggy because it's much easier and safer, especially if you have a load of shopping, or two or more children, and also because a lot of pushchairs for small babies take up almost as much floor space folded as they do open (there isn't any place to leave them apart from the wheelchair area). But the payoff for this huge gain in convenience is that if the space is needed for a wheelchair then you fold it or get off.

I wonder if a GoPro camera or similar might help. If a conflict starts, tell them you are switching it on.

So what distance do you think it acceptable for someone in a wheelchair to travel by bus?

@ElliF

yes, the bus should not move again until the passengers comply and the wheelchair user is properly ‘seated’. If it takes police intervention and even arrests, then that is what should happen.

Oh come on...People get on with unfolded buggies because it's safer all round... fewer unrestrained children flying around the bus while their parents desperately try to keep their balance and find somewhere to stow the buggy (there is no longer any buggy or other storage on buses).

If a wheelchair user comes on, you fold. Simple as that. And the bus driver can wait a few moments to ensure the safety of your small children while you do that. So that your baby isn't crushed to death because you were holding them with one hand, trying to fold with the other and didn't have a spare hand to hold the handrail when the bus went flying around the corner.

I agree entirely with priority for wheelchair users and stories like the OP's make me sad, but buses also need to be safe for babies and small children to use. And that means patience from drivers and other passengers. Unless you think actually parents of small children shouldn't be public transport at all but should drive instead?

They can travel whatever distance they like. Surely that’s the point?

Doesn’t mean I had to be happy about it meaning it took me nearly an hour longer to get home with a tiny baby and a pissed off hungry toddler because I had to get off a bus I’d already waited a very long time for so that he could go a few hundred yards up the road in slightly less time.

It doesn’t matter what your reason
the wheelchair space is for a wheelchair

Buy snacks.

Those are good arguments for campaigning for a designated space for children such as yours. It isn't a good argument for claiming priority over wheelchair users.