to want to use the bus like everyone else?

[toddlertamer20]

Hi,
I'm a single mum of 3, live in london and am now reliant on a wheelchair. I use buses to get around as I don't drive. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people being so incredibly selfish on buses. Wheelchairs have the priority, as obviously we cannot fold, however, as I have found out in the last few years, if there are prams on board and they refuse to fold...there is not much the driver can do as they can't be physically removed.
Most of the time, if a bus comes along with 2 prams, I will wait for the next bus. But sometimes I have to be somewhere and considering that is the only spot I am able to use on the bus, I feel like I should be allowed to use it. Everytime I insist that I need to get on it either a)end up with an argument eith the driver as he won't ask people to move or fold their prams....then a call to TFL who apologise and promise the educate the driver again.
b) I get let on but then the people with the pram won't move and argue with me, one of these times the driver was oblivious that I was mid gangway still and pulled off causing me to be thrown into a pole and break my arm. Or c) They just pull off and don't even attempt to let me on or put the ramp down.
Today again I ended up in a big argument. I needed to get a bus to get my youngest from school. The bus didn't come for ages. It eventually came but 3 buggies were on board, one without a child in it. The driver tried to tell me the next bus would be along in 20 minutes to which I said I couldn't. So he played the announcement asking the people to move their buggies. Then suddenly another passenger comes to the door and informs me that I need to wait as the people with the prams were there first. So I told him that actually by law I have priority, and I need to be on this bus. He then proceeds to tell me how I just need to wait and can't just get on and kick people off. At this point I was late already to get my child from school, so I did insist I got on. In the end I was allowed on bus got a mouthful off both the parents with the prams. I just don't know if it's me. I can understand it's frustrating if you're on a bus and suddenly you have to move or fold your pram up, but I cannot fold my wheelchair. It feels like everyone thinks I am in the wrong when I'm trying my best to just be a normal mother! Please tell me there aren't just selfish people put there...or is this honestly just me?
(by the way I do try to leave super early to make sure I have plenty of time to get there but then I am also waiting outside in the cold and I have problems with my joints so not a good combination)

I always get off the bus if the space is needed for a wheelchair user but it can be a bitter pill to swallow sometimes… on one occasion I nearly broke down in tears when I’d waited over an hour for a bus which had enough room for me to get on with my pram that had my toddler and then newborn baby in it, and I was going all the way to the end of the route. Not 5 minutes later I had to get off again because a wheelchair user was getting on to go to a shopping centre 3 stops away. Had to wait another 45 minutes before I could get on another bus.

The pushback by the self-righteous on the forum is normal. These are the same people who believe they should be entitled to use parent and child bays when they don’t have their children with them, and who don’t see why they can’t just quickly park in the disabled bay outside the chemist cos they’re just nipping in and no-one is using it. They don’t get that it is a disabled spot for disabled people. It’s pure selfishness and the level of bigotry displayed towards disabled people by those with buggies is staggering, especially her on MN.

I think this is the issue as the last few busses I’ve been on around here, granted I don’t use them often but still, the wheelchair and disabled spaces have been the same thing. Fold down disability seats in the wheelchair area so it’s one or the other not both if that’s makes sense. In that situation you can’t kick off other disabled people whose disabilities mean they need those seats to make way for a wheelchair

Another poster posted a pic of busses with separate wheel chair and disabled/priority seating areas which is a much better design and I hope the norm in most of the country. In that case yes of course wheelchairs have complete priority over the wheelchair area. My only caveat is that children in specially built and modified ‘mobility pushchairs’ have to be treated the same as a wheelchair user as they have the same rights really and if they can’t be removed safely from the mobility pushchair then it’s no different at all from an adult in a wheelchair. Families of disabled children often opt for ‘pushchairs’ because they’re more practical for family life but won’t deserve to be discriminated against because they chose a sporty special needs pushchair over a traditional wheelchair unit

Yep and not a “I have a disability so I’ll use it” space. I have a disability (mobility impaired) and I don’t use it. I’m not playing top trumps, I don’t need a wheelchair space because I don’t use a wheelchair.

(Children in specialist buggies fall into the “wheelchair” category in this scenario of course. I have seen a small baby in a standard pram but had oxygen and a feeding tube pump and obviously this couldn’t be folded down, so this counts too.)

YANBU. I'm sorry people are being so grotty and you've had such bad experiences. Especially since you legally (and for very good reason) have priority. These people are setting such a bad example to their children.

I take my buggy on buses often and am always ready to fold. I've only had to do it a few times (twice since DC2 came along) as usually I have the time to wait for the next bus. What I find helpful is 1) shouting at the bus driver not to move until you've folded - folding on a moving bus is dangerous. You have to shout quite loudly otherwise the driver will ignore you, 2) having reins/a harness to secure the child to a seat before you fold, and 3) having everything in one big bag under the buggy instead of multiple smaller bags. If the baby is in a bassinet as mine is, remove the bassinet and wedge it safely between the seats before trying to fold the buggy. Don't fold and try to hold the child at the same time as that could cause a nasty accident on a moving bus... make sure the child is secured first. The folded buggy can be stored between the bus seats although you do then need to sit with your legs in the aisle. It's inconvenient but I find it doable with one or two small children and no other issues. It does take time which can annoy the driver/other passengers, but that's not an excuse for not folding. And the bus drivers around here are not shy... if there's behaviour they don't like on the bus, they will refuse to move until it is sorted or the person responsible gets off.

"Ok but it would be the same for child in a SEN buggy. Not all kids are in a sen buggy because they can't walk, many are in them to keep them safe in public, to stop them running off and causing injury to themselves."

If a child has a special needs buggy it is treated as a wheelchair regardless of why they have it. If someone with an older toddler thinks their child's additional needs warrants one, they can ask their child to be assessed for one.

The exception does not prove the rule. You have picked a specific instance that is not what the OP is complaint about and are playing the ‘yes, but....’ game. OP is complaining about the bigotry and hatred she experiences from the entitled mother brigade, and their steadfast refusal to recognise that they are not entitled to use a wheelchair space regardless of how helpless they feel because they haven’t figured out how to navigate public transport successfully, and how spineless bus drivers are in the face of these raging harridans. We can all think of situations where it might not work, but that does not the actions of these mothers towards disabled people.

Sorry if this is off topic but I'm curious. If a pram user is (correctly) told to leave the bus to accommodate a wheelchair user, is their fare refunded/carried over? Or is it it forfeit and they have to pay again?

In London where op is you can use as many buses as you want within an hour for one price so wouldn’t be a problem

Part of the problem now us that buggies and prams are huge these days. They’re big even if they are folded, which they rarely are. I’m in London and always travelled by bus with my DC in a buggy -but it was an umbrella-fold stroller - and I could easily fold it one-handed within seconds while keeping hold of a toddler at the bus stop. My baby would be in a sling.

I think around here (London), you can get on another bus free provided it's within an hour of getting on the first one - you just don't get charged for the second bus. Or you can ask the driver for a transfer ticket... they don't like issuing them for some reason and try to refuse but if you stand your ground, they'll normally give in. At this point, though, everyone on the bus is usually getting truly fed up of the delay so you have to not mind confrontation.

No, it’s more generous. It’s as many buses as you like, not just two.

But has to be within the hour, right?

Yes, within the hour.

I'm quite shocked by a couple of entitled and obviously quite thick posters on this thread.

A wheelchair space is for wheelchairs.

Engage your entitled, selfish brains.

I'm so sorry OP. It all sounds so stressful for you

I’m pretty sure the bus rules used to say pushchairs had to be folded before you were allowed to board. You couldn’t just board the bus with a child in an unfolded buggy.

You can ask for a ticket to get the next bus free. Same in Edinburgh.

But you could only be defending them against a wheelchair user. Why would they have a better right to the e space specifically designated for wheelchairs?

You are meant to fold the buggy before you get on the bus, though, at the bus stop. You shouldn’t be inconveniencing the driver or making him wait!

Don't you see that if you say that any disabled person can use the wheelchair space, it is inevitable that it will descend into an argument about who is more disabled and therefore who needs it more? The point is that wheelchair users need priority in that space because it is the only place in the bus where they can travel safely - and because those spaces exist only as a result of campaigns by and on behalf of wheelchair users. The parent of a child with ASD has other choices.

A person with autism does not need a wheelchair space. A person in a wheelchair does because it is a space for a wheelchair.

What's the relevance of them going to a shopping centre three stops away? Would it make a difference if they were going on an hour long journey?

I doubt if that wheelchair user could have got to the shopping centre under their own steam. Since I would have thought that the wheelchair user would have been able to show a pass on boarding, and she was leaving the bus, I dont see how she knew where the wheelchair user was getting off anyway.

wow I didn't expect this many replies. I have read through them all which has taken me quite some time.
I just wanted to say a couple of things, although I'm unsure how to quote multiple people so I'm going to do it without.
I would never expect any child in a disability buggy to move for me. In fact on the other end I have been trying to use a bus before, and there was a child in one of these buggies at the bus stop before me. When her mother tried to board the bus the driver said I had priority and I ended up backing her up that her child was in fact in a wheelchair and not just a normal pram. To me these are the same as wheelchairs for adults and I am not including these in what I am saying.

People saying that I should just wait like everyone else....well yes, and I am completely down to earth and don't think I'm above anyone else at all. But if you think about the amount of buggies there are, to the amount of wheelchairs...it becomes near impossible to get a bus without a buggy sometimes. I have often let 4/5/6 buses go past at busy times, each with buggies or even more annoyingly the space is full of suitcases/ladders/bags/scooters. But sometimes I can't and I need to get somewhere just like everyone else. I didn't chose to be in a wheelchair, I don't get to chose wether to fold it or not, I simply can't. I used the space for me or I don't.
If I get on to a bus with a buggy on, I always always let the parents put the pram back in as best they can once I am against the backrest. Although I have actually had a couple storm off saying their buggy did not properly fit in because of the chair. I've had a few times where I'm in no way against parents...I have kids myself and before I was disabled, I also used buses with my children.
As for my daughter making her own way to school, this is not possible. I also enjoy being able to pick her up and see her when she comes out and listen to her babbling about her day. I don't want to give that up just because people don't think of others.

And so you shouldn’t give up that right. However, please do assert yourself more. You have priority over buggies, notwithstanding buggies to be treated as wheelchairs.