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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Being mistaken for the PA

515 replies

BingBoings · 10/02/2023 21:11

Twice this week I have been in email chains, where I have been asked to supply dates for a meeting.

The reason for this has in both cases, I assume, is that I am the only female name in the thread.

Both situations have seen large numbers of clients and colleagues copied in on emails where… I am asked if I can help give times when my male colleagues are free. I am usually senior to them.

Am I the only person this happens to? I find it half hilarious, and half embarrassing… A few months ago I was asked in a meeting if I could do coffees when I walked in…

i have no issue with managing my own diary nor is there any issue with being a PA… it’s more that I don’t see men having this issue…!

OP posts:
Its2amimustbelonely · 11/02/2023 08:24

In my old job one older guy insisted on introducing me as "the marketing....lady". Every time I had to correct him (in front of clients and customers) and reiterate that I was the Comms & Marketing Director and would be leading on their current campaign.

Coffeepot72 · 11/02/2023 08:26

Now, I actually am a PA, but people often assume that's code for "general dogsbody" rather than "respected member of the team". I don't have the time to start running around after people who I don't actually work for (and, interestingly, the people I do work for don't ask me to do the 'dogsbody' stuff like book meeting rooms and make tea because they know I have proper work to do. To date, my boss has made me more cups of tea than I've ever made him).

Yes!!!! My experience entirely

sashh · 11/02/2023 08:27

cosmiccosmos · 11/02/2023 06:46

There are a couple of examples on this thread where women in senior positions have been asked to do something and they've just done it and then seem to have been smug/pleased when the men realise and look a bit embarrassed.

Personally I would never just do thing they asked, I can't believe @VeronicaFranklin actually went to the shop! Surely a much better response would either be to stop for a few seconds, a quiet pause, and then say 'mmm what did you say' and get thrn to repeat it or just look 'down' at them and walk off! At the end of the day the guy got what he wanted, a woman doing what he asked! I don't think men give a flying and whilst might have been a bit sheepish would have lived in fairly rapidly but done it again. They weren't called out, they got away with it and hit what they wanted! Sorry but I think it's a rather pathetic, childish and unprofessional response to do something and delay your meeting!

Did you miss the bit where everyone had to stay for an extra hour?

Just saying, "not my job" means it will happen again, being responsible for the meeting being delayed and people having to work over will make him think twice in future.

I wasn't mistaken for a PA but I was covering another teacher's lesson. One of the male students was struggling with a lap top and I was helping him out.

Second male student to the first, "I can't believe your asking for help from a health and social teacher".

I just carried on and under my breath said, "A health and social care teacher with a degree in computer science"

Walkaround · 11/02/2023 08:28

Well, it makes sense for the most senior person to supply the dates, imvho, as no junior person is going to dare suggest a date the big boss can’t do. If you don’t have a PA, then why does this suddenly have to mean more junior colleagues have to do your admin? Whose meeting is it, if not the most senior person’s?

Crazykatie · 11/02/2023 08:29

I just love that situation, men making fools of themselves, they really should know better these days, there are so many women in senior roles, maybe not CEOs but lots of heads of departments.
They really should have “never assume” tattooed on their dicks.

mmi · 11/02/2023 08:31

Spot the mansplainer on this thread 🙄

AuntSallie · 11/02/2023 08:32

I hate to say it, but I agree with Mark on only one point and it is that this isn’t misogyny. It’s imho, everyday sexism.

Beesandhoney123 · 11/02/2023 08:35

Actually I always write minutes if i can, and I'm very very good at it. It's a skill - who writes the mins has the power over the mtg:)

Admin/ EA roles have been done by women historically. As an older person working in us and uk corporates for over 40 years, I see the move to everyone being a graduate and " graduate fast track" meant the EA / admin role became exposed as not needing to go to university to do it in those days . Therefore it was looked down on

I see jobs I did easily advertised as ' graduate only' I expect they have been reframed.

Never annoy the EA. She or he has a direct hotline to the bboss. We had someone arrive for a senior interview, they blanked my good morning chat and smile completely.

When gone, boss said ' what did you think of x ' did x honestly think I wouldn't say anything or that boss wouldn't ask? Thd EA is the eyes and ears of boss. Imo

MabelMoo23 · 11/02/2023 08:35

I’m an EA in the NHS and can confirm that yes admin get treated like utter shit - and I’m someone who has had to step down in her career and had a previous role working as a project manager with the likes of big corporates and government agencies.

due to personal family circumstances I had to step back and now work as an EA so am incredibly capable in my role but Christ the dismissive shittiness I get from both men and women. It’s appalling. Sometimes I do consider it a real career low at times - not the admin, because actually admin is the backbone of the NHS and for many other companies - but the way I now get treated because I’m admin - and sometimes I find it incredibly difficult to deal with. I used to be the person chairing meetings and now I either get ignored completely (as in not even a hello) or spoken to like utter shit - and yes they are bloody Doctors

AuntSallie · 11/02/2023 08:36

Walkaround · 11/02/2023 08:28

Well, it makes sense for the most senior person to supply the dates, imvho, as no junior person is going to dare suggest a date the big boss can’t do. If you don’t have a PA, then why does this suddenly have to mean more junior colleagues have to do your admin? Whose meeting is it, if not the most senior person’s?

This is true because the most senior person dictates the schedule. But once I was senior, I had an exec, a secretary plus a few orderlies any of whom would manage my calendar and schedule meetings for my subordinates, coordinate meetings with my peers execs/secretaries/orderlies and add on meetings dictated to me by my superiors’ & HQs staff.

If OP doesn’t have any admin staff, she might be most “senior” as in longest time on the job, but not highest rank/position or even manager of her “male colleagues” ifykwim.

Oopsididitagaintomorrow · 11/02/2023 08:37

Actually, no. My boss has not benefited from "women" at all, he has the benefit of me, who is a woman, doing my job which enables him to do his. The two other Pa's in our dept are male, just so you know!

MabelMoo23 · 11/02/2023 08:38

Beesandhoney123 · 11/02/2023 08:35

Actually I always write minutes if i can, and I'm very very good at it. It's a skill - who writes the mins has the power over the mtg:)

Admin/ EA roles have been done by women historically. As an older person working in us and uk corporates for over 40 years, I see the move to everyone being a graduate and " graduate fast track" meant the EA / admin role became exposed as not needing to go to university to do it in those days . Therefore it was looked down on

I see jobs I did easily advertised as ' graduate only' I expect they have been reframed.

Never annoy the EA. She or he has a direct hotline to the bboss. We had someone arrive for a senior interview, they blanked my good morning chat and smile completely.

When gone, boss said ' what did you think of x ' did x honestly think I wouldn't say anything or that boss wouldn't ask? Thd EA is the eyes and ears of boss. Imo

The number of times I get told “don’t put that in the minutes”

fuck off. I’ve signed the official secrets act, I’m not 12, I know what is and isn’t appropriate to go in the minutes

Cosyblankets · 11/02/2023 08:39

daisychain01 · 11/02/2023 08:07

See, I find your boss's attitude deeply misogynist but you think he's doing you a favour?

His one advice to trainees is never p off the admin/secretaries or Pa's, they can make your life easy, or hell so treat them with the respect they deserve.*

Your boss has benefited from women enabling his success for his whole career, so to him you're there to serve men and make their life easier. All he's doing is maintaining the status quo including suggesting to the trainers that you're there to serve them as well.

Show quote history

No it isn't.
In a school setting, staff are often told to make friends with the care taker for similar reasons. No one would say that was sexist.
This thread is full of people looking for offence which isn't there. I'm not even sure I believe some of the posts on here.

shrunkenhead · 11/02/2023 08:43

Maybe I'm missing the point entirely here but....WHY are able-bodied people asking others to do things/fetch things that they could easily do themselves?!
Who are these lazy, entitled people who think they're "above" make their own coffee?!

Velvetween · 11/02/2023 08:44

My old boss used to walk past several more junior male colleagues to get to me, the lone but senior female…and ask me to make coffees and greet visitors when they arrived.

I refused after a few occasions and suddenly twigging what was going on (smallish firm with no need for a receptionist/PA). Said I didn’t mind helping out occasionally but others had to take their turn. The blokes (traders) were horrified but had zero argument.

JustSophie · 11/02/2023 08:45

RustyNails · 10/02/2023 21:35

You say you are senior to them do you think maybe they will work around your availability for the meeting? I'm a career EA when organising meetings I base it on the availability of the most senior attendees everyone else needs to make themselves available. I do this for both men and women.

This was exactly my thought. I’m the head of my team and I’m usually asked about times, with the assumption that my diary is busiest (it is) and therefore I am going to have the least availability. That’s not to say sexism isn’t rife in the workplace!!

SamanthaCaine · 11/02/2023 08:46

Oopsididitagaintomorrow · 11/02/2023 08:37

Actually, no. My boss has not benefited from "women" at all, he has the benefit of me, who is a woman, doing my job which enables him to do his. The two other Pa's in our dept are male, just so you know!

Haha. I think that makes @daisychain01 a misogynist for assuming your colleagues were women.

MountedbyHarryWindsor · 11/02/2023 08:51

I confess I've been lucky enough to never have experienced this, or have noticed it, until last year.
My manager (male) and I were meeting with a national client and the men from the client were senior managers and very posh oxbridge accents.
My surname can also be a first name, so its not uncommon for people to address me by my surname, but usually they apologise when I correct them, no harm done.
These men, in the first meeting, continously addressed me by my surname in the zoom call, even when I repeatedly corrected them. I could see my manager (who is great) getting irritated by it too. In fact, they only stopped when he spoke up to correct them. No apology though.
They repeatedly spoke over me like I didn't matter, like I wasn't important. They addressed all their questions to my manager, despite me being their main contact and project lead. My manager kept redirecting back to me, but to no avail. He was only there to observe me as I was a fairly new starter and this was my first big project.
In subsequent emails, yes, you guessed it, they address me by my surname.
I was stunned, I had never experienced such blatant sexism before.

Walkaround · 11/02/2023 08:51

AuntSallie · 11/02/2023 08:36

This is true because the most senior person dictates the schedule. But once I was senior, I had an exec, a secretary plus a few orderlies any of whom would manage my calendar and schedule meetings for my subordinates, coordinate meetings with my peers execs/secretaries/orderlies and add on meetings dictated to me by my superiors’ & HQs staff.

If OP doesn’t have any admin staff, she might be most “senior” as in longest time on the job, but not highest rank/position or even manager of her “male colleagues” ifykwim.

Show quote history

Well, it also makes sense to ask the most competent person. It’s a mystery to me why self-importance is not recognised as a form of incompetence.

Spendonsend · 11/02/2023 08:52

Its funny because I am both annoyed that people are assuming women are the PA because they are women, but I'm also annoyed people seem to be offended by being compared to a PA.

Cosyblankets · 11/02/2023 08:55

Spendonsend · 11/02/2023 08:52

Its funny because I am both annoyed that people are assuming women are the PA because they are women, but I'm also annoyed people seem to be offended by being compared to a PA.

I agree.
And as for some posters saying they were talked over or interrupted or whatever, I would not allow this to happen. I would point it out every single time. They do it because you allow them to get away with it.

SillyLittleBiscuit · 11/02/2023 09:01

Spendonsend · 11/02/2023 08:52

Its funny because I am both annoyed that people are assuming women are the PA because they are women, but I'm also annoyed people seem to be offended by being compared to a PA.

Same! I’m an EA and I have my own dedicated assistant. Times have changed, people. I don’t get anyone coffee unless I’m going myself and have offered.

xJoy · 11/02/2023 09:04

VeronicaFranklin · 10/02/2023 21:39

I was once asked in a meeting if I could 'pop out to the shop' to get one of the male managers some Sudafed as he had a cold and was struggling and 'if it isn't too much trouble to grab everyone a Starbucks on the way back would be really helpful'

So I did as asked without question.

When I came back 20 mins later, the meeting hadn't started, everyone sat around looking awkward because as a senior manager, I was chairing it... and consequently everyone was kept an hour later. They assumption was I was a junior note taker, being the only female in the room.

I'm amazed you did that though! I remember working in the city as a young 20 something, a broker, not any kind of secretary or PA> I went to NY with school friends not work friends and this sooooper posh older man appeared out of nowhere and asked me to get him a shirt from (can't remember) I said no, as I was only there for 6 days and didn't want the job of getting him a shirt and I might need space in my bag for my own purchases coming home. He was apparently (i heard later) very shocked by my behavior, my attitude, blah blah blah. The nerve of him! still makes me cross!

SerendipityJane · 11/02/2023 09:04

Seems fuck all has changed in 50 years.

OntarioBagnet · 11/02/2023 09:05

@Mark19735 how many times have you been mistaken for the secretary?