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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Being mistaken for the PA

515 replies

BingBoings · 10/02/2023 21:11

Twice this week I have been in email chains, where I have been asked to supply dates for a meeting.

The reason for this has in both cases, I assume, is that I am the only female name in the thread.

Both situations have seen large numbers of clients and colleagues copied in on emails where… I am asked if I can help give times when my male colleagues are free. I am usually senior to them.

Am I the only person this happens to? I find it half hilarious, and half embarrassing… A few months ago I was asked in a meeting if I could do coffees when I walked in…

i have no issue with managing my own diary nor is there any issue with being a PA… it’s more that I don’t see men having this issue…!

OP posts:
OntarioBagnet · 11/02/2023 07:31

I had similar years ago. I’m very senior in my organisation but am a middle aged woman. Last year an event had been organised and some volunteers attended, one of which was an older man who I recognised from the gym.

He came over and said hello and then said to me “so do you do the admin here”. 🙈🤔. I politely pointed out that I did not do the admin. He blustered a bit and wandered off. He’d never have asked a man that. Why on Earth couldn’t he just ask what my role was without assuming it must be admin.

namechangeforthisbleep · 11/02/2023 07:31

This is mad, I've not worked in a professional environment for a few years now (own a cafe now) and I've never seen this at all. London city offices and I was senior ish and never saw it. I'm not saying I don't believe it, I'm just shocked and feel it must be kind of limited to a few professions.

YouJustDoYou · 11/02/2023 07:31

One of the jobs I used to work in, the company tended to hire young, attractive women. If you were unattractive like me you were just dismissed by the men in the company, ignored, talked over etc. It was very frustrating to be dismissed right off the bat purely on looks. They soon paid attention though when they realised I was senior to them.

SamanthaCaine · 11/02/2023 07:32

Cordeliathecat · 11/02/2023 01:07

I am very senior and work in a male dominated industry. I have never found this. Quite the opposite in fact, I am often the only woman in the boardroom and I feel as though the men go out of their way to ensure I'm never the one pouring the coffee, taking notes etc. In fact, it was the same when I was more junior. And the industry I work in would never be described as politically correct. Maybe you just work with dicks?

Same

I'm not denying experience from the many posters here but I find it odd that so many women work in offices where noone knows each other and what their roles are. I get it with public and visitors but in my male dominated field, everyone knows who they're working with and their positions. Even if having a meeting with a new team, people will know who's attending, their names and positions. It's therefore impossible to make an error in assumption.

As a result, it's not my experience either, which is nice as none of this BS gets in the way of getting jobs done.

But as the OP says, it's mostly women doing this to her. Shameful really but then women are often equally conditioned as men.

namechangeforthisbleep · 11/02/2023 07:36

Mark19735 · 10/02/2023 23:13

Hate to say it, but it's only status-obsessed people with a high need for social approval that even give a shit about this sort of thing.

Most people with genuine gravitas and authority couldn't care less. They'll make the brews, and they'll take the brews that others make for them. without a second thought about what it means or how looks. It's inconsequential trivia.

Obsessing about symbols of power and prestige is one of the clearest signals that reveals you don't really merit it.

👏

speakingofart · 11/02/2023 07:41

Oh yes so much these - I work in a senior HR role and the amount of people who assume I must be there to take the notes infuriates me. I've recently commenced a new role and come across more direct sexism for one of the first times in my life - being talked over, patronised etc. It's being managed but dear lord I would not have coped with work in the 1980s without blood pressure medication!

Iizzyb · 11/02/2023 07:42

I'm a lawyer. The number of times I answered my own phone with my own name and was asked "is he there?" (Just an assumption I was my secretary). Often obvious disappointment when they realised they were dealing with a woman.

When I use my full name it's obvious I'm female. In its shortened form it could be either. So, I made the firm change my email address and I changed the signature on my letters to my full name (that I had stopped using when I was 13!)

Mostly resolved it.

My boss at my last place wasn't a "keeper" in the end but he did always make the drinks in client meetings if we were seeing clients together.

Hoplesscynic · 11/02/2023 07:42

VeronicaFranklin · 10/02/2023 21:39

I was once asked in a meeting if I could 'pop out to the shop' to get one of the male managers some Sudafed as he had a cold and was struggling and 'if it isn't too much trouble to grab everyone a Starbucks on the way back would be really helpful'

So I did as asked without question.

When I came back 20 mins later, the meeting hadn't started, everyone sat around looking awkward because as a senior manager, I was chairing it... and consequently everyone was kept an hour later. They assumption was I was a junior note taker, being the only female in the room.

Why would you do this though and waste your own time? Just say "sorry not able to, I'm just about to start this meeting".

SamanthaCaine · 11/02/2023 07:45

Mark19735 · 10/02/2023 23:13

Hate to say it, but it's only status-obsessed people with a high need for social approval that even give a shit about this sort of thing.

Most people with genuine gravitas and authority couldn't care less. They'll make the brews, and they'll take the brews that others make for them. without a second thought about what it means or how looks. It's inconsequential trivia.

Obsessing about symbols of power and prestige is one of the clearest signals that reveals you don't really merit it.

You seem to be the MN man of the month (for all the wrong reasons 😂) but despite pp's biting, I actually think you have a point. After all, if these women were secretaries then there wouldn't be an issue, right?

It is obviously about status and the offence caused by others assuming that a woman can't be in a senior or high level position (often by other women it seems). I guess whether it's about ego is another matter though as we're all different.

Obviously it's BS though as there are women at all levels of numerous industries nowadays. All quite visible to everyone but some people must just be blind, stupid, assholes or a combination of the above.

LadyAstor · 11/02/2023 07:55

I’m senior and when we had older men in senior positions about ten years ago, I had to put them straight several times on a few of their assumptions and suggestions, such as:

  • Its not right that a man answers the phone.
  • Women just sound more friendly answering the phone.
  • The men are far too busy to help set up lunches.

Honestly. We got there in the end but they genuinely thought that they were right, just because “that’s the way we’ve always done things.”

emptythelitterbox · 11/02/2023 07:57

SeulementUneFois · 10/02/2023 21:34

I'm foreign (though white), senior in a very specialised profession and I think I've gotten away without this happening to me because I've always behaved a bit "superior" - not quite rude, but brazen; not quite patronising but as arrogant as the most arrogant man in the room..

This is what I have done over the years and continue with it even though I run the company now. Crafted a mysterious, somewhat scary,eccentric, genius persona.

emptythelitterbox · 11/02/2023 08:04

YouJustDoYou · 11/02/2023 07:29

DH's job is very typically male-dominated and when a female comes along, males (often older males in their 50s/60s onwards) balk at the fact a female is in charge of their lives.

I've experienced this a couple of time with men from certain places where women are seen as property.

Imagine their surprise at me kicking them out of a meeting when they attempted their shite with me. Grin

IhearyouClemFandango · 11/02/2023 08:04

Fuck me, mansplaining on this thread of all threads. You couldn't make it up 😂

Crumpetdisappointment · 11/02/2023 08:06

working in the nhs, this has never happened to me, except i am an admin - i have never been asked to make the tea or go to the shops, how very old fashioned
i used to wear a white coat on the ward round and in clinic, as i took shorthand, and was mistaken for a doctor, yes i am female - you all seem to be living in an alternative universe, and very dated

daisychain01 · 11/02/2023 08:07

Oopsididitagaintomorrow · 11/02/2023 05:48

I'm a PA in a law firm - I work for a partner and judge. I often find myself dismissed as non-important and not worthy of anyone's time by higher up men and women alike. My boss is pretty quick in putting people in their place about this and often tells people he couldn't do what he does without me.

His one advice to trainees is never p* off the admin/secretaries or Pa's, they can make your life easy, or hell so treat them with the respect they deserve.
We may not be the ones doing the big jobs or bringing in the money, but we work bloody hard to make sure the ones whose job that is, are able to do it!

See, I find your boss's attitude deeply misogynist but you think he's doing you a favour?

His one advice to trainees is never p off the admin/secretaries or Pa's, they can make your life easy, or hell so treat them with the respect they deserve.*

Your boss has benefited from women enabling his success for his whole career, so to him you're there to serve men and make their life easier. All he's doing is maintaining the status quo including suggesting to the trainers that you're there to serve them as well.

Ratonastick · 11/02/2023 08:11

I once pointed out the unconscious bias in some of our meetings to my make CEO. He was an absolutely lovely chap who cheerfully hired me into a very senior role and treated me as an equal business partner at all times, ie not a dinosaur. Once he understood and noticed it for himself, he was brilliant and, like a PP, went out of his way to lead from the front and ensure that I was never treated as anything other than the role I occupied. But even a man like that had just never seen it before. Shows how deep the ingrained perceptions go.

itsgettingweird · 11/02/2023 08:15

I'd be tempted to make everyone the coffees before taking my place at head of the meeting and leading it from the front.

But I'm a horrid sort who likes to watch people squirm!

goldennotyetoldie · 11/02/2023 08:16

Yes to all of these scenarios.

Whenever the 'pouring the tea situation arose' I'd look at the expectant faces, smile and say 'white no sugar thanks'. 😊

My absolute favourite was new in a director role, and I needed to sort access for my private parking space (a real luxury in that building). The security guard sorting it, looked disdainfully at me, stretching back in his chair 'no, you can't have a parking space ' me, politely are you Jerry, the man who sorts the spaces? I've been told to speak to you'. Him 'yes, but you can't have one, as only directors can have spaces, not just anyone, so no'. Me 'I am a director. The new big director actually '. Him 'red faced, scrambling to sit up straight, blubbering on 'oh, well, how was I supposed to know? Erm, yes, erm erm erm.' I strutted off (importantly 😂😂). He was nice as pie after that.

ScreamingInfidelities · 11/02/2023 08:16

Mark19735 · 11/02/2023 00:31

Are you sure about that? It feels like the OP was saying "I think I'm quite senior. I was treated like my role is more junior." That's about status.

Misogyny is dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. But the OP didn't describe a scenario where anyone exhibited loathing and hatred at the very idea that a women could be quite senior. She just gave an example of mistaken identity - one where it was assumed that she was junior. There are other threads about age-based mistaken identity, race-based mistaken identity, class-based mistaken identity - all sorts. It happens all the time.

Making it all about the sex of the person is a distraction. Many men are status-obsessed and insecure. So are many women. Anecdotal examples of mistaken identity are not evidence of systematic misogyny. Unconscious bias, perhaps. But it's not always pernicious. Sometimes mistakes really are just that - mistakes. All the posts in which people are celebrating those who have responded to these situations with prickliness or rudeness are just exhibiting the attitudes I described - an unhealthy obsession with perceived status and a gleeful desire to brandish some weird identity-based victimhood. That isn't fighting misogyny - it's being a dick. People with real gravitas don't mind, seem to notice or even care when it happens to them.

Show quote history

thank goodness you’re here to explain misogyny to us all 🙄

Being mistaken for the PA
SaltyGod · 11/02/2023 08:17

I was asked by a male colleague to make him a coffee at a meeting once. I told him I'd make him the next one if he made me one first.

His face was a picture.

He never asked again. Or made me a cup.

daisychain01 · 11/02/2023 08:19

Wow! @Mark19735 thanks so much for enlightening us on here

Misogyny is dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

is it really? Well I never knew that.

daisychain01 · 11/02/2023 08:20

Lol @ScreamingInfidelities every day's a school day right?

Winniepoo · 11/02/2023 08:22

I hope you didn't do it, I always refuse, every time. The second time someone does it the email just gets deleted.

SaltyGod · 11/02/2023 08:23

I suspect it is culturally ingrained in businesses.

My current company has a very strong female leadership and across the business women form around 50% of all teams. It's hugely refreshing, we don't have any of this nonsense.

I'm meetings women often outnumber men, or meetings are all women. It's the most driven and fast paced place I've ever worked. Amazing

Poppins2016 · 11/02/2023 08:24

Stravaig · 10/02/2023 23:58

This is going back a ways. A visiting trustee once came into the office where I was doing some admin and announced that he needed some printing done. I welcomed him, logged him onto a spare computer, showed him where the printer and paper was, and went straight back to what I'd been doing.

He later told an old friend of his, who I was also close to, that I had the most charming way of saying 'fuck off' that he'd ever come across 🤣

If I'd actually set out to make a point I couldn't have done a better job.

This approach is my default!

Now, I actually am a PA, but people often assume that's code for "general dogsbody" rather than "respected member of the team". I don't have the time to start running around after people who I don't actually work for (and, interestingly, the people I do work for don't ask me to do the 'dogsbody' stuff like book meeting rooms and make tea because they know I have proper work to do. To date, my boss has made me more cups of tea than I've ever made him).

"Can you book a meeting room?"
"Oh, don't you know how? Here are some screenshots of how to select the meeting rooms in Outlook, let IT know if you need a hand" etc.

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