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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Being mistaken for the PA

515 replies

BingBoings · 10/02/2023 21:11

Twice this week I have been in email chains, where I have been asked to supply dates for a meeting.

The reason for this has in both cases, I assume, is that I am the only female name in the thread.

Both situations have seen large numbers of clients and colleagues copied in on emails where… I am asked if I can help give times when my male colleagues are free. I am usually senior to them.

Am I the only person this happens to? I find it half hilarious, and half embarrassing… A few months ago I was asked in a meeting if I could do coffees when I walked in…

i have no issue with managing my own diary nor is there any issue with being a PA… it’s more that I don’t see men having this issue…!

OP posts:
xJoy · 11/02/2023 09:05

Spendonsend · 11/02/2023 08:52

Its funny because I am both annoyed that people are assuming women are the PA because they are women, but I'm also annoyed people seem to be offended by being compared to a PA.

yeh, when i was a junior broker, PAs were paid much better, but there was the ''one of us'' feeling if you weren't a PA. I shound't have cared. You're never ''one of us''

Crafty09 · 11/02/2023 09:17

I’m quite reactive to being asked to do the minutes to the point I no longer know if I am being unreasonable or not. It’s a small team and when the need arises we largely take in turns but I’m not convinced the numbers stack up.

ConfusedNT · 11/02/2023 09:17

We recently had a contractor in who decided to come over to me (the only woman in the room) to patronising explain a fundamental part of my job to me. He didn't do it to any of the men in the room. And he knew exactly what my job was because I had been on the pre calls where we were discussing the technical requirements.

I've also been asked by a manager of another team to organise the catering for an event his team were organising. Probably because I was the only woman on the call. I also lived 7 hours away from the office the event was taking place at where as everyone else on the call lived near the office so were much more likely to be aware of companies that could provide catering or had provided catering previously.

I politely declined the request but the same person would also send me messages asking me to book rooms for his meetings etc. Personally I think he was bitter he didn't get a PA when many other people on similar pay to him did and as I was the only woman he worked with regularly who was junior to him he decided to make me his PA. Which was a mistake because I would not make a good PA that's totally not my skillset, I have ADHD and whilst I am good at my job I am not good at organisation, planning and time management etc

He actually turned out to be shit at his job and no longer works for the company.

In general though my current male dominated role the men actually really care about sexism in the work place and challenging their unconscious bias so these were rare events unlike some other places I have worked

FawnFrenchieMum · 11/02/2023 09:24

TortolaParadise · 10/02/2023 23:48

My understanding of this thread is not one of looking down at someone else's role but addressing the institutionalised stereotypes that are normalised in certain staff in workplaces. These become our lived experiences which we are sharing.

Show quote history

Absolutely and many of the posts are that, but some of them sound like they feel like admin don’t deserve the same respect as they do.

ItchyBillco · 11/02/2023 09:33

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Because sometimes it makes a more powerful and resounding point. And, sadly, is often more effective that standing up for yourself and getting labelled a ‘bloody difficult woman’, when the same action by a man (though they’d never have to do it) commands respect.

But also, in the case of @VeronicaFranklin’s exquisite handling of the situation, I’d quite happily make a point and inconvenience myself slightly to make those men as uncomfortable as she did and leave a lasting impression. Her actions were not meek, they were decidedly pointed.

prh47bridge · 11/02/2023 09:34

When there is an email chain involving people from my place of work and a client and we want to arrange a meeting, we will always ask the most senior person from the client for dates, regardless of the sex of that individual. That isn't because we think they are the PA or expect them to do it themselves. It is because they are the most senior person and therefore best placed to ensure that all those needed in the meeting will attend.

prh47bridge · 11/02/2023 09:34

prh47bridge · 11/02/2023 09:34

When there is an email chain involving people from my place of work and a client and we want to arrange a meeting, we will always ask the most senior person from the client for dates, regardless of the sex of that individual. That isn't because we think they are the PA or expect them to do it themselves. It is because they are the most senior person and therefore best placed to ensure that all those needed in the meeting will attend.

They are also likely to be the individual with the fewest available time slots.

FawnFrenchieMum · 11/02/2023 09:35

Oopsididitagaintomorrow · 11/02/2023 05:48

I'm a PA in a law firm - I work for a partner and judge. I often find myself dismissed as non-important and not worthy of anyone's time by higher up men and women alike. My boss is pretty quick in putting people in their place about this and often tells people he couldn't do what he does without me.

His one advice to trainees is never p* off the admin/secretaries or Pa's, they can make your life easy, or hell so treat them with the respect they deserve.
We may not be the ones doing the big jobs or bringing in the money, but we work bloody hard to make sure the ones whose job that is, are able to do it!

Quite! I also have a supportive boss like this! Piss me off and you’ll find it a lot harder to get any time with him. He also respects my opinion on people and situations and I’m his eyes and ears on the ground.

Same as previously someone said they would reply to the email with ‘X’s PA will help you organise some time’ with no pleasantries etc, I as the PA would think your the dick not the person that asked you for the meeting. Try ‘Hi Fawn, X needs some time with Y & Z, please could you help us arrange it’

WeepingSomnambulist · 11/02/2023 09:45

prh47bridge · 11/02/2023 09:34

They are also likely to be the individual with the fewest available time slots.

Show quote history

But she wasnt asked for her own availability. She was asked to provide the times when her male colleagues would be free. She was expected to act as their PA and do the work of aligning everyone's schedules. That isnt her job. She is the senior one. She can give her own availability but she was expected to go round and find out when all the men were free.

nestofvipers · 11/02/2023 09:49

Fullrecoveryispossible · 10/02/2023 23:21

This is down to our biology. Instinctively, we look to men as leaders. Don’t hate on people when this happens, just smile and laugh!

What absolute bollocks. It’s down to social conditioning and nothing to do with biology. And smiling, laughing and putting up with this shit rather than addressing this behaviour is what’s got us into this depressing situation.

theEndwhen · 11/02/2023 09:50

PugInTheHouse · 10/02/2023 21:44

In my first job I happened to answer the phone as it was lunch time and one of the receptionists was out at lunch. it happened to be a query for something I looked after so I started answering his query and he stopped me and said can I speak to an engineer please, surely you're only a receptionist 😱

We also used to host county councillors for meetings now and then, the women used to have to make tea/coffee, hand round food and then wash up after, none of the men ever were asked, they did kindly carry the heavy plates back to the pub that provided the food though Hmm

and he stopped me and said can I speak to an engineer please, surely you're only a receptionist 😱

how did you answer? please tell!

DottieUncBab · 11/02/2023 09:51

Yep this happens!

A colleague of mine was in a meeting once and they asked her what she was doing at the weekend and she said preparing for exams… they asked what exams… she said the professional exams (the profession of everyone else in the meeting) and they were shocked as they assumed she was there just to take notes…

it is so wrong

PugInTheHouse · 11/02/2023 09:53

theEndwhen · 11/02/2023 09:50

and he stopped me and said can I speak to an engineer please, surely you're only a receptionist 😱

how did you answer? please tell!

Show quote history

I was 19, I wasn't an engineer but he was reporting a street light being out which literally just needed me to log the fault so didn't even need an engineer. I tried to explain what my job was but he was really rude so I hung up 😱

2bazookas · 11/02/2023 10:01

VeronicaFranklin · 10/02/2023 21:39

I was once asked in a meeting if I could 'pop out to the shop' to get one of the male managers some Sudafed as he had a cold and was struggling and 'if it isn't too much trouble to grab everyone a Starbucks on the way back would be really helpful'

So I did as asked without question.

When I came back 20 mins later, the meeting hadn't started, everyone sat around looking awkward because as a senior manager, I was chairing it... and consequently everyone was kept an hour later. They assumption was I was a junior note taker, being the only female in the room.

Love it. "You just sent the boss shopping".... Imagine the blushmaking cringe of the man wishing he could crawl under the table.

Snoopystick · 11/02/2023 10:01

Not the point of the thread, but I’m actually a minute taker and have been a PA in the past. Some of the comments are pretty derogatory about minute taking and administrators. We should be valued members of teams, not looked down upon.

Heartsandbirds · 11/02/2023 10:01

I work in a very technical degree level job in construction and am usually the only woman. I went to a big meeting once where I very senior and had the yay or nay on whether projects went ahead. It started with a breakfast and one of the men swanned up to me and said “Are you catering, dear? Could I have some milk?” so I smiled sweetly and poured it for him. My boss saw me talking to him and came over to say “Oh you’ve met Delilah, good, she’s in charge of the project”. I’ve never seen anyone swallow their coffee so fast.

Ivebeentofairyhousebutiveneverbeentomeath · 11/02/2023 10:03

I don't get the people who meekly go out and get coffee or whatever. I'm not the most senior in my organisation nor the most junior. However, if someone assumed I would get coffees, I would refuse because it's not my job.

FiddleLeaf · 11/02/2023 10:05

Same & I always say my diary is up to date so find a free slot and book it in. I would NEVER facilitate the behaviour.

Heartsandbirds · 11/02/2023 10:05

And in response to why I did get coffee, it was because I knew we’d be formally introduced a couple of minutes later and he’d choke on it.

SilentHedges · 11/02/2023 10:06

I'm a PA. I earned 75k+ this year, it varies with bonuses, for a multi national. I haven't made tea (we have catering or drink machines for that), done any filing (paper or nails) or someone's photocopying for years. I have real work, I'm well respected, be rude to me and you won't get to see my boss so easily and I won't go out of my way for you (the same applies in any other role). I've found attitudes have really changed in my company over the last 10 years and men wouldn't dare assume women are there to make drinks or take minutes. I'm not leaving my company ever, after reading some of these posts!

Horizons83 · 11/02/2023 10:09

Not quite the same issue but reminds me of something that happened at my dad’s business.

He was the owner of the business and had organised a meeting with a sales rep to discuss some IT services.

My dad’s PA showed them into the meeting, and yes, did bring them coffee, that was part of her job description, before returning to her desk.

The sales rep went through his pitch and started saying how the IT package would need support and training: “It needs someone with more technical ability. I mean, you would be fine with it, but I’m sure it will be beyond the lady who brought in the coffee, she wouldn’t be able cope with it. “

My dad: “Can I just stop you there. Firstly, my PA has a degree in electrical engineering and has been working with computer networks for over 30 years. Secondly, she’s my wife.”

Needless to say, he didn’t get the sale.

Ketchupwee · 11/02/2023 10:18

You’re all talking about how these men make you feel but how do you think people working in these roles feel about the way you’re all looking down on the admin roles in your businesses!

I don't think anyone is looking down on Admins/PAs they do an important job. I always tell the newbies to get to know ours and treat them with respect, as between them they know everything that is going on in our business and are hugely valuable in the smooth running of it

It IS frustrating as a senior level woman that people automatically assume that you work in admin because it isn't your job and it is born from the notion that women are there to support the men who do the 'big' jobs because women aren't capable of doing those jobs themselves

It doesn't mean that people don't value those whose job it is (or that it's not a big job, it's just a different career path)

Nooshoos123 · 11/02/2023 10:21

In my previous role, facilities sent an email to the distribution list “All female employees in Pegasus building”, asking for our feedback on the cleaning standards in the building. Called that shit out straightaway!

Ketchupwee · 11/02/2023 10:24

Fullrecoveryispossible · 10/02/2023 23:21

This is down to our biology. Instinctively, we look to men as leaders. Don’t hate on people when this happens, just smile and laugh!

Oh fuck right off with that bollocks. Of course we don't 'instinctively' look to men as leaders

prh47bridge · 11/02/2023 10:29

WeepingSomnambulist · 11/02/2023 09:45

But she wasnt asked for her own availability. She was asked to provide the times when her male colleagues would be free. She was expected to act as their PA and do the work of aligning everyone's schedules. That isnt her job. She is the senior one. She can give her own availability but she was expected to go round and find out when all the men were free.

Show quote history

I've only read the OP so I may have missed something, but that says she was asked to provide dates for a meeting. That is exactly what we would ask the most senior member of staff from the client to do. It is not for us to decide who needs to be in the meeting. But they are likely to be the busiest. They are also likely to be best placed to decide who else needs to be in the meeting and ensure their attendance. We don't care whether they do it themselves or give it to a PA to do. But there is no way we would ask the PA or a junior member of staff at the client for dates. The PA doesn't work for us. It isn't our position to ask them to organise a meeting. If anyone is going to give them that job, it should be their boss.