Being mistaken for the PA

[BingBoings]

Twice this week I have been in email chains, where I have been asked to supply dates for a meeting.

The reason for this has in both cases, I assume, is that I am the only female name in the thread.

Both situations have seen large numbers of clients and colleagues copied in on emails where… I am asked if I can help give times when my male colleagues are free. I am usually senior to them.

Am I the only person this happens to? I find it half hilarious, and half embarrassing… A few months ago I was asked in a meeting if I could do coffees when I walked in…

i have no issue with managing my own diary nor is there any issue with being a PA… it’s more that I don’t see men having this issue…!

You're still missing the point.

If a man wouldn't have to demonstrate the same kind of behaviour to get on - standing straight, looking hard and keeping smiling, then there isn't fairness in the organisation, and that should be called out. Whether or not you thrived is immaterial.

Not everyone has presence and confidence and you shouldn't need to have more of it to be successful as a woman than as a man doing the same job.

Exactly. There's some real cake and eat it thinking on this thread. Either, there are sex-based differences between men and women that are immutable, or the gendering of roles and responsibilities in the workplace is a social construct designed by, and to the benefit of, the patriarchy. Which is it? Because if it's the latter - then it's all an illusion. It can be willed into oblivion through enough people simply refusing to acknowledge it. Considerably more women than men attend university. The tipping point occurred in the UK in about 2001/2, depending on what you count. So it simply cannot be claimed that women are an under-represented minority in most managerial or professional work environments. Some blue-collar industries perhaps ... but anything indoors or office-based and women are not just no longer a minority, but increasingly they occupy key positions as gatekeepers and decision-makers. The days of routinely being the only woman in a meeting surrounded by men are long gone.
So, for everyone sharing all these anecdotes of "this one time, I was asked to make the coffee by a man! How rude!" - if you are genuinely aggrieved about the status quo in your workplace, do something positive about it - change your pronouns on your email signature block, if that's what you think makes a difference; demand that pay rise, close that gender pay gap and start acting like the authoritative, influential, important and senior bad-asses you claim to be, instead of whimpering on MN about how your lack of status or self esteem is all down to sexism and the fault of all the men out there.

I've gone with unreasonable because actually if you're senior, I would anticipate you offering dates for meetings when your junior colleagues were free. Admittedly, twenty years ago you'd have asked your PA to check diaries and provide those dates so you could then put forward suggestions for the meeting date. Oddly, as PAs became a rare breed, this seemed to fall on the more senior staff. If you need to attend purely as an attendee rather than in any senior or managerial capacity, then you need to send an email explaining that you do not feel it's within your remit to organise the meetings.

@Basecampzero I think you will find that the majority of successful people/leaders male or female, have presence.

Never once have I felt disadvantaged by my sex. The only pronouns that have a whisper of a chance of finding themselves on my email signature are "I" and "me".

Low point? I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall watching them squirm. 😂

I'm a bit conflicted, because I defo see that it can be easier for mediocre men to succeed in some circles with the whole playing golf/old boys camaraderie thing.

However, I'm not sure men can 'get away with being less assertive' because that's literally classed as one of the key male characteristics in toxic masculinity etc. Men are expected to be assertive and must fulfil that role to be seen as 'a real man'. However, 'a real woman' isn't really a thing outside of chubby women talking about 'real women have curves' etc, which is imagine would come across a bit odd in most board meetings.

When I was in my early 30s I worked for a very traditional estate agency. I remember being asked in a meeting to make the tea for everyone, despite the fact that there were men in attendance who were more junior than I was. I seem to remember asking them if they felt the fact that I had breasts made me genetically more skilled at making tea. They never asked me again.🤣

🫡

Oh you're so right! I often notice when we're out, my DH is given the bill - which is dumb because we have a joint account anyway!

close that gender pay gap

Ah thank you, oh wise man, now we finally know what to do. Too bad nobody ever told us, silly women, that we can just close the wage cap. Will to it first thing in the morning.

That’s interesting, because I notice that they make a real effort to not do that any more. We live in a city, maybe you don’t? Or is it more down to the type of restaurant, or just change?

It takes more than refusing to acknowledge gender or even sex differences to value the work that was traditionally done by women more appropriately. Women acting like “authoritative, influential and senior bad-asses” is a symptom of the problem, not the cure. For authoritative, influential and bad-ass, read arrogant, bullying and self-centred. If you have an issue with a patriarchal society, the problem is not fixed by becoming the patriarchy.

Mary I still get that. Visit clients and depressingly several young men have asked me when the solicitor will get there 🙄

I work for myself - not quite sure what else I can do bar actually become a man 🙄

It’s not about actually doing the right thing by the company, it’s about getting yourself noticed. Hard work is seldom rewarded, it’s taken for granted

This is in another book - "Why Men Win At Work" - the author Gill Whitty says that women tend to work "under an umbrella" so their managers can't see what they are doing. Men shout about what they are doing, so they get promoted. So a sensible manager makes sure they know what their direct reports are doing and doesn't wait to be told.

I am sure the senior managers know exactly how much their reports are doing, just choose to ignore female reports

Now, didn't you read the mansplaining advice above? Have genuine authority, be a Real Queen. Simple, really.

I am a barrister - I’ve never been mistaken for anyone else as I come down to reception and greet them, so there’s no doubt. I also now start every meeting I chair by asking everyone to introduce themselves.

But at the end of a long mediation (a settlement meeting attended by solicitors and counsel for each side, client representative plus the mediator) it is very common for the mediator to turn to me and say “will you type up the settlement agreement?” I am almost always the only woman in the room (high rate of attrition for female solicitors and counsel by my level of seniority). If there’s a younger looking woman present the mediator will usually ask them. I have started challenging it. “Bob’s representing the Claimant so it’s really for him to do the first draft” etc. Once I said “why are you asking me?” Mediator said “I assumed you’d be a better typist”. I replied “time for X to get some practice then!”

I feel sorry for Mark's female partner if he has one 🤷‍♂️

I think that is what Mark19735 is suggesting. 😂

I visit clients at a difficult sensitive time so charging in as a “ball breaker” would be unspeakably inappropriate! I don’t really care I’m nearly 50 just found it very odd that recently it has been a couple of very young men that assume I’m not the solicitor. Thought we were over all that.

Seems obvious to me. How about introducing yourself when you meet/greet your clients? "Hi, I'm Thea, your solicitor". Isn't that 101 of owning your own business? If clients don't know who they're hiring then something has gone wrong.

In fact, a lot of complaints here are due to business 101 errors. As per @DelurkingLawyer anyone who chairs or calls a meeting should start with introductions, especially if people don't know who's attending. This sadly says more about the professionalism of many workplaces than anything else. Basic communication.

I highly doubt that he does.

@Mark19735
[...] the gendering of roles and responsibilities in the workplace is a social construct designed by, and to the benefit of, the patriarchy. [...] it's all an illusion. It can be willed into oblivion through enough people simply refusing to acknowledge it.

Women are trying, very hard, to 'will it into oblivion' by refusing to acknowledge it, but unfortunately so many men are not cooperating...

Considerably more women than men attend university. The tipping point occurred in the UK in about 2001/2, depending on what you count. So it simply cannot be claimed that women are an under-represented minority in most managerial or professional work environments.

This is a non-sequitur. Just because more women are getting degrees, it does not follow that they are no longer under-represented in such work environments. The gender pay gap statistics are proof that there are still more men in the more-senior roles that women.

The days of routinely being the only woman in a meeting surrounded by men are long gone.

That depends entirely at what level the meeting is. If it is a board meeting, or senior management / Heads of Department meeting, then sadly there can still be only one woman in the room, or perhaps two women if it is a large meeting.

demand that pay rise, close that gender pay gap and start acting like the authoritative, influential, important and senior bad-asses you claim to be, instead of whimpering on MN about how your lack of status or self esteem is all down to sexism and the fault of all the men out there.

The solution to sex-based discrimination lies with those doing the discriminating, not the victims of the discrimination. To suggest otherwise is victim-blaming.