Being mistaken for the PA

[BingBoings]

Twice this week I have been in email chains, where I have been asked to supply dates for a meeting.

The reason for this has in both cases, I assume, is that I am the only female name in the thread.

Both situations have seen large numbers of clients and colleagues copied in on emails where… I am asked if I can help give times when my male colleagues are free. I am usually senior to them.

Am I the only person this happens to? I find it half hilarious, and half embarrassing… A few months ago I was asked in a meeting if I could do coffees when I walked in…

i have no issue with managing my own diary nor is there any issue with being a PA… it’s more that I don’t see men having this issue…!

This infuriates me I have lost count of the amount of times I’ve been told to “make the coffees love” or “are you here to take the minutes then” I wait patiently then introduce myself & watch them squirm in there seats; just because I’m female doesn’t mean I can’t lead in a male dominated world; it’s sad that people still view women like this in the 21st century, but once my seminar/ meeting/training is over they’re in no doubt they’ve made a terrible error that they won’t make again….. I hope 😁

What line of work are you in @Missingpop ?

Happens all the time. Since I’m more senior, I like to think about it in a way that if I call the meeting my people will need to attend so they’ll make arrangements.
But yeah it’s very annoying. 90% of my company are males and apart from me there is no female in leadership position. What can you do 😂

Happens all the time in all industries /businesses /sectors.

We must all call it out every time this happens. If appropriate, we shall uld do this as and when it happened. If not, it should be addressed afterwards ASAP in a courteous non confrontational manner.

As long as peiole are allowed to behave this way without reprimand or pointing out how sexist it is, the longer they'll continue. And we should use whatwver support we can, if needed.

Bollicks

It’s a problem outside of work, too. Social conditioning is rife. I was in a jewelry store once, choosing a necklace for myself. I selected one, and the (male) jeweler stopped me and asked me if my husband would approve the price, if he wanted to come in and look at it first, etc. I raised an eyebrow, but answered very courteously that I owned my own business, my husband was actually employed by me, and I could certainly purchase my own necklace.

Another time I went to buy a car and the salesman would only speak to my husband, who had actually come along to look after the baby while I chose a model. (Yes, the salesman was told that.) The salesman ushered me over to a corner seat with the stroller and told me to wait there and look after the baby while he talked to my husband. My husband looked at me, I waved him off with an “it’s okay” look, and afterward awhile they came trotting back and the salesman had to start over again with me, having finally ascertained that my husband a) knows nothing about cars whatsoever, b) would neither be purchasing nor driving the car in question, and c) wasn’t actually sure what specs I was looking for.

The stories are endless, but I think most people mean well and that gives me hope for change.

If this really happened not only would I have walked out but I would have made an official complaint

This is such a depressing read…. I work in the travel sector and 90% of employees are female (including senior management) so I don’t experience this. I hoped or naively thought we, as women, were further on than this.

It was the first month of my first graduate engineering job (I'd spent a year previously doing a non graduate field based job for a Civil Engineering Consultancy to gain field experience). I was asked to take minutes at the team meeting. It was a small team and they didn't actually employ any admin staff. Fair enough I guess, I was one of the two most junior members of the team. That said this was the first professional meeting I had been in and at no point during my engineering degree was I taught how to take minutes strangely. What was worse they spent the whole time speaking in acronyms which were specific to that company and would refer to people outside the meeting (who I had never met) by first name only. Those minutes I took must have been absolutely awful. That didn't stop my team leader asking me to take the minutes the month after that and the one after that and for the rest of the time I was in that job. At no point was my equally junior male colleague (who was of a similar age and experience) ever asked to take minutes. If that was to happen now I would say something along the lines of 'I took them last month isn't it Dave's turn', but as a shy 20 something I didn't.

Unfortunately they really did happen. I think this kind of thing takes place a lot, actually.

I didn’t complain about the car salesman because I was a brand new parent and too tired to find the energy. I didn’t complain about the jeweler because he apologized, offered me a discount and behaved impeccably after that. But there have been several that I did pull up on it/complain about, too. Mistakes happen, and as long as people try I’m usually polite. If they don’t try, I go through the official channels. That’s what they’re there for.

It's very annoying when this happens

When younger I used to be asked to set up meetings by the consultant secretary !!! When I was a senior hospital social worker at the time and my time was as limited as the hospital consultants was . As she asked in person I used to chuckle and reply, "ask a secretary's but i don't set up your meetings, not my role... "

I learnt to put my long hair up and wear my glasses and that is crappy that I had to ...all because I was a back then young woman. I can't imagine as a senior manager keep doing that, bc I have careful exterior now as a senior manager - I raise an eyebrow. And give them a very pat answer about "who is the admin support ?" as this is not my role, but as a woman it is very very annoying

I’m quite surprised reading these. I work in the US and though I do experience sexism it’s no where near as blatant. Hardly anyone has a PA in financial services, even SVPs manage their own calendars and will write meeting minutes for any meeting they arrange. It’s a simple rule; if you arrange the meeting, you’re responsible for the meeting minutes and follow ups. No PAs or separate note takers of any gender required. Everyone gets their own water/coffee before walking into the meeting?

What does this mean?

I think there are 2 separate issues, although they are perhaps different sides of the same coin, and they are definitely about everyday sexism.

One is the way people (women) in roles that are dominated by women and are perceived as low status are treated.

The second is the way women are expected to pick up the admin and "soft tasks" no matter who they are.

So, with the former, as the most senior person in my team in a v heirachial organisation (investment bank), I seldom answered the phone for others. We all answered our own phones. If we weren't there or on a call, our team PA answered. If she wasn't there the next most junior and so on. Our department policy was that phones were always answered, so it wasn't unusual that actually, if it was busy and lots of people were at meetings that I would answer the phone. I was ALWAYS shocked at the difference in the way a lot of people spoke to me when they thought I was the PA vs when they knew who I was. And it made me respect that person less every time.

On the second type, it wasn't a major thing but it wasn't unusual to go to meetings internally where me being senior was perfectly known (again, it was that kind of organisation), but sometimes there would be an assumption that the women would play "mum". Some even joked about it. On the other hand, the benefit of the heirachical organisation was that the more junior person would leap up knowing that actually more people in meeting would be unimpressed if he/she didn't take over.

Was a solicitor in the early 1990s working for a firm that did a lot of criminal legal aid work. Went into a cell one morning with a male colleague to be greeted with ’Hello love, see you’ve brought your bosses files with you.’ Changed his tune when my colleague explained that I was the duty solicitor who would be representing him in court that day and was his best chance of getting bail…

As pp have said I quite often am happy to take minutes because it's a great way to ensure you have a name against every action that's agreed, then you can go after them to make sure they all do it.

You’re amazing!

Make it clear what your role/position is, repeatedly if need be, otherwise assumptions will continue to be made, not just about you, but about all women in senior roles simply because they’re women. These assumptions need calling out, continually, until one day (hopefully), it won’t be an issue. It’s even worse (sadly), when it’s women making these assumptions about women!!!

@Runlulurunandrun 🤣I had no idea I pressed that - purely a pocket post!

I also find it interesting that the assumption is that the PA is always female. Is this the case in these supposedly enlightened “equal” times?

Interesting and also disappointing.

Why not sign off with the preferred pronouns of “he/him”? 😂

I work in automotive manufacturing. Not long after I started (rejoined after a break) the HR dept moved up into our office floor. Many occasions when I was in the kitchen area making a cup of tea quite a few men that worked on that floor would say something like oh how is it up your end of the office etc etc. They assumed I worked in HR. They wouldn't have thought that if I was a bloke.... I work in an engineering department.

But didn't ask if they should blame themselves for it happening to them as the PP implied.