Being mistaken for the PA

[BingBoings]

Twice this week I have been in email chains, where I have been asked to supply dates for a meeting.

The reason for this has in both cases, I assume, is that I am the only female name in the thread.

Both situations have seen large numbers of clients and colleagues copied in on emails where… I am asked if I can help give times when my male colleagues are free. I am usually senior to them.

Am I the only person this happens to? I find it half hilarious, and half embarrassing… A few months ago I was asked in a meeting if I could do coffees when I walked in…

i have no issue with managing my own diary nor is there any issue with being a PA… it’s more that I don’t see men having this issue…!

Yes, I agree that too, some extent, it is about ‘playing the game’, but aviation industry might be different than construction industry/ structural and civil engineering. Literally every woman I ever met gave up.
Also, maternity leave/ flexible working for women with families was non-existent. It is still very much like that- largely refused and has to be forced by HR and fought for. I saw many many women leaving because of that too.

OMG that's so grim. Can you not leave and transfer? I'm sure you have transferrable skills.

I'm working with a female lead right now. A very responsible position and the focal point between a number of specialist groups. Her husband is a pilot so it all falls on her but she's working from home half the week nowadays. Her daughter's been ill recently and so she's off, unexpectedly at the drop of a hat.

But literally no-one cares (not in a bad way), or complains and just gets on with it. Upper management are on side and it's just not an issue. The culture is very laid back and family friendly. WFH means she can jump back in when she likes (sometimes in the evening when kids are in bed) but there's no pressure.

A lot of aero/defence companies are progressive nowadays and we're still male dominated, which is interesting. But I work with a fair few dad's that have gone part time and share the parenting with their wives. Again, another positive.

The whole company introduced WFH arrangement post-Covid (3 days at the office) which made lives easier for a very few women remaining. However it’s too late for me as my daughter has already half way through her primary.
In the past, WFH was refused. I was also refused flex working pre-Covid when my DD was very young. Women didn’t get any flexible working or WFH arrangements until everyone in the company got it.
It looks like your industry is way more progressive!

I am also an EA, have been for over 35 yrs across a number of blue chip companies. I have seen some managers try it on with female mgrs but I can assure you they get short shrift. Even our CEO, takes a turn in making drinks for his team... think rather large international company. He commented that he knows what is happening from the conversations he has with staff in the kitchen... and he does make decent pot of coffee.

When I used to work at what was a Big Six Accountancy firm in the 90s, the senior partner would ask the tea ladies to look at the list of potential partners... and yes, their views mattered and could delay promotion.

Sorry but I think it's a rather pathetic, childish and unprofessional response to do something and delay your meeting!

And yet your recommendation to 'just look 'down' at them and walk off!' would have been more professional and really taught them a lesson 🙄when that suggestion doesn't call them out at all.

The problem with the response, though, is that whilst it very effectively puts the wrongdoer in their place for picking on the wrong person, it’s too subtle to teach them that everyone is the wrong person. If you need something from the shop, then get it yourself.

@Mark19735 It's not just about status. It's about being treated with respect at an ordinary, human level.

Have a read of this Twitter thread written by a man who accidentally swapped email signatures with his female co-worker, and see what happened.

Men tend not to bitch. They get it wrong, get corrected and move on once they have the message.

They so do bitch and whinge.

And it definitely happens in IT.

Lawyer here. I see this with female colleagues all the time. I tend to find those clients to be the most unpleasant.

“Men tend not to bitch” that is too funny! Have you ever lived in the actual real world?! Men are way meaner than women. We treated our junior male colleagues with respect - they in return had graded us all marks out of 10 for fuckability.

Unless you nip this in the bud it will continue.
You need to reminded your male counterparts that you aren’t their PA.
I’d actually go so far as to tell them you will charge a rate per reply for any further e-mails, that aren’t directly related to your workload, that request information from you that should have supplied in your male counterparts original e-mail.
I would also inform the requesters of the information that they should address the person they need the information from directly not just assume that because you are the only female in the CC’s that you are the PA to everyone else.

That is work place sexual misconduct & totally inappropriate!
I would be reporting everyone involved. They need to grow up 😡

You need to really look into the legality of their refusing your request for WFH & flexi time due to you having work restrictions due to caring duties for young kids at home. You may find that legally your work place has broken some major discrimination rules!

I’m an EA, but I’m in the Domestic abuse charity sector, so the majority of people I deal with are female anyway. However, I’d have no issues calling it out, and my executive, as a domestic abuse survivor herself, definitely wouldn’t have an issue calling it out.

Dickhead here. I hear you

From another viewpoint I work in a team that is all female. After team meetings there are plenty that just up and leave if we have had drinks or even sandwiches. It's the same few that always clear up. Think some people are just like that whoever it is. It seems to be us more mature ladies that realise there's clearing up to do.

I had a really bizarre conversation with a now ex colleague once. Another colleague was making a joke to me about 'wimmin' (haha in itself) and they said 'ooh don't say that to HR'. I responded to say I'm not HR..
Confusingly, my colleague went on to say 'oh you don' t need to do down what you do'. WTF, I'm not and never have been HR in any capacity. I'm the Ops manager and had trained him on my dept a couple of weeks earlier. I work about 5 ft away from him and we'd interact daily about the things I actually do. I can only assume that as middle aged female in a small company, I must be HR despite all evidence to the contrary.
I've also been asked to train as a first aider and stroke someone's hair because they're hungover. Fuck no on both counts thanks!

Happens to me often. Work in a very male dominated industry for a company owned and ran from a country where it is very patriarchal. I am very vocal though and when asked to arrange meetings or take notes, I don’t hesitate to reply back both via email or in meetings stating that I am not the correct person or will take my turn, but point out that we should organise a rotation for taking minutes or if this will be an ongoing requirement arrange to have an admin join in future.

I am also 80% of the time one of or the most senior person in the meeting.

This happens to me. I’m very senior and head of dept. I’ve been asked to book lunches for men who report to me. Less obviously, people ask me about male colleagues’ diaries, as if I would know, and also consult me on other PA/admin type stuff such as invoices.
Having said that, i sometimes pretend on the phone to be my PA to avoid people so there’s a plus side!

When DH was WFH I occasionally had to answer his work phone and take messages. On several occasions I was asked “Are you his secretary?” When I replied “No, I’m his wife” the caller always found this inexplicably funny. Eventually I got so fed up with it that I started saying “Well, I’m the person he has sex with…”

I use my professional title of Dr since I was divorced. An on call GP rang me regarding some results recently and initially asked if I was Dr <name>’s wife!!! He did apologise but I didn’t hold back

Also, after declining to stroke my hungover team members hair, she told me 'I should be a man as I' m so hard'. I'm not, I'm pretty soft actually and bend over backwards to look after my team. I just do it by negotiating them the best possible remuneration packages, and providing the best development opportunities I can. I really hate it when I'm expected to hug or provide the kind of support I'd give my children!

Stroking the hair fair enough no to that but what's wrong with being asked to train as a first aider?

Absolutely nothing wrong with being a first aider in itself. I'm objecting to being the 'obvious' choice. I'm quite squeamish and there are others who are a far better option than me!

Why would someone who doesn’t know who is Chairing a meeting be responsible for organising who is taking minutes?
this doesn’t ring true.