Being mistaken for the PA

[BingBoings]

Twice this week I have been in email chains, where I have been asked to supply dates for a meeting.

The reason for this has in both cases, I assume, is that I am the only female name in the thread.

Both situations have seen large numbers of clients and colleagues copied in on emails where… I am asked if I can help give times when my male colleagues are free. I am usually senior to them.

Am I the only person this happens to? I find it half hilarious, and half embarrassing… A few months ago I was asked in a meeting if I could do coffees when I walked in…

i have no issue with managing my own diary nor is there any issue with being a PA… it’s more that I don’t see men having this issue…!

The OP did ask if it happens to other women, so those posters are just answering that.

Call it what you want but you've still had to deal with it assertively so clearly you've experienced it.

I know I've got much better at the Paddington Hard Stare when I get these requests but I spent years developing that and I still get talked over in meetings and expected to make the coffee by people who don't know me yet. Plenty of the most respected and experienced women in my industry get the same, especially from people from cultures where women are subservient and from men who aren't very good at their job. And that's just the stuff that shows - there's plenty more that's more subtle and even more damaging because you can't fight what you can't see.

It's so wearing fighting this again and again and again.

And another one saying it's a poor thread title, it's not being treated like a PA but rather a personal servant. There's just a strong correlation between people who treat a PA like that and people who assume a woman must be a PA because, in their head, they both exist to serve.

I've had to be more assertive with women who resent another woman's success or position, than I ever have with a man or men to be entirely honest. Men tend not to bitch. They get it wrong, get corrected and move on once they have the message.

I couldn't disagree more. What the pp did was priceless, and did far more to cause total embarassment among the men in the meeting than merely stating her position ever could. They learned their lesson thoroughly that day, and I bet they wished the floor would open and swallow them up. And I bet they've never made that sort of mistake again.

Maybe not quite the same area, but there have been a flurry of social media "stories" of late about an interview that went terribly wrong for the candidate (usually male*) who because of a sudden absence mistakes the CEO for the receptionist and treats them like dirt, only to face them 5 minutes later in an interview.

*Which tells you there are a few variations on a theme.

Pretty certain there's an old joke about someone saying to person of Indian descent who appears to jump the queue in a Doctors "in this country we wait our turn" or somesuch similar.

As I said, doesn't seem much has changed since Benny Hill and On The Buses.

Yes, I've heard that story before. It is funny because she was one of the most recognisable people on the planet, they were walking on her land, asking questions about her, and they still didn't twig who she was.

I suspect that the Queen would have been much less amused if those tourists had assumed he was a senior royal, that she was the housekeeper, and they had asked her to pop off and fetch them a cup of tea, love.

Well, it is obvious. One of them sticks his head out of the meeting room door, locates the nearest female, and asks them to fetch the refreshments.

Nope.

The real problem is that many men instinctively assume that women are subordinates.

The real problem is thinking a subordinate should make your drinks and take your notes.

They do? My DF is a prime example to the contrary - I was just starting out in my career and was telling him about my new job, he said it was a shame that my manager was female because "nobody likes female bosses". A bitchier statement than I've ever heard from any professional woman and a downright awful thing to say to your female child with management aspirations.

Senior people at work are perfectly entitled to ask a subordinate to carry out tasks on their behalf. That is what staff are for.

The problem lies when some of them assume that the only woman present is the most junior person there, and therefore the person whose job it is to fetch and carry.

@Mark19735 god you love the sound of your own exceptionally dull and irrelevant voice don't you? Why use one sentence to mansplain when you can use 12 saying the same thing. Off you trot ...

I agree, if that is part of their job. A highly paid person shouldn't be expected to be ordering morning tea or booking travel (obviously it depends on the situation). If I'm in charge I don't want my technical experts to be 'wasting' their time on this. Eg I want people to be participating in a meeting not busy taking notes, and the person taking the minutes should be good at it which not all people are, that's a skill in itself

@Basecampzero brilliant reply to Roses. I read her post and it pissed me off and you've articulated exactly why. Pulling up the ladder behind her is such a brilliant way of putting it. Thank you

Exactly. If it’s your job - not if someone just happens to think you are an unimportant person and that it is an unimportant task. If a job needs doing, then choose the right person for the job, rather than anyone you happen to think is likely to be less less important than you are. And if you want a drink, you are not actually too important to either make it, or to have arranged for refreshments to be ready and waiting in advance of your very self-important meeting. If tou need a drink, it is not a waste of your time to get yourself one, quite frankly.

Am I in the minority in thinking I wouldn’t dream of asking anyone to make me a drink??

when I used to host meetings I used to either arrange for tea and coffee to be waiting for us, or I made it myself for my guests as I invited them!

Absolute Mabel. I don’t think I have ever asked anyone in a work setting to make me a drink. If they offer I would accept but I would never ask anyone to. Blows my mind! But I’m not a man so…

And of course good minute taking requires skill. You need to understand what is being said for a start, to have excellent concentration, an ability to write fast at the same time as listening, to be able to identify who is contributing when they talk, to have the confidence to clarify if you think you missed something important, and the ability and time to write up minutes quickly, comprehensibly, succinctly and accurately. You should not expect someone to both take the minutes and contribute to the discussion - if you are incapable of multi-tasking in this way, then so are they. Use them for the job you have employed them for.

I wouldn't either. I'd accept one if offered but unless I was too dehydrated to talk I wouldn't ask.

And even very thirsty I'd bring a cup in with me, or (if I was visiting and didn't know the layout) ask if there was anywhere I could get myself a cuppa.

I’ve been an engineer for 25 years now and this was happening to me my whole life. Also any male running for promotion, no matter if he lacked experience and/or skills was chosen instead. The same goes for projects - even know sometimes they try to give me simple technical design which I refuse as way beyond my technical experience.
The only women promoted were those with connections (such as having a relative in a higher position within the company or other personal connections).

I used to take it personally and worked twice as hard, constantly worked on my skills and knowledge, went above and beyond until, one day, I realised it’s just the way things are. It is soul destroying. I’m so sad it’s still happening but I really hope it will change for future generations.

My huge company are shit hot on this type of thing, they’ve inculcated a culture where it just doesn’t happen (in my long experience).

But it’s just a sop, so they can keep paying women lower salaries than men.

@Babycakes6 - whilst it tends to happen somewhat more systematically to women, it tends to happen also to people who are extremely good at their jobs, but don’t play the game. It’s not about actually doing the right thing by the company, it’s about getting yourself noticed. Hard work is seldom rewarded, it’s taken for granted. Plenty get themselves noticed and rewarded for bad ideas that looked good at the time - so long as you’ve got your promotion and got out in time, so that the people left behind can be blamed for being incapable of carrying on with your “great” idea, you’ve won the game (just not so much your employer or work colleagues).

I'm so sorry to hear. I'm an engineer of similar experience but a completely opposite story. Women have more options for promotion and opportunities abound. I've worked with a number (albeit not many) very senior female engineers who have got there on merit and are genuinely esteemed by their male peers/reports. I've been on nights out and these women have been sincerely praised, not sexualised or talked down. It sounds like a different world but have worked at most of the big aero companies.

That's not to say there isn't sexism and I've met or heard of some right pricks but the organisations themselves have been fine.

This!
In our work setting we just brought our own drinks with us.