Page 8 | How much does my tenant owe me?

turnthebiglightoff · 10/02/2023 14:51

"It's not her home"

😒 yes, it is.

ivykaty44 · 10/02/2023 14:52

If the tenant needs to give a months notice in her contract then you could stick to that. In normal circumstances that’s what would happen.

you’ve asked to stop the contract and asked/given notice to the tenant to find somewhere else to live/rent, which is what the tenant has swift done. The tenant has done this outside the parameters of your time frame and thus you want to punish her for this by charging her to rent your place for an extra two weeks.

of Course you can stick to the contract exactly and enforce the tenant pays, leaving bad feeling.

Iwrotethelyricstoaxlf · 10/02/2023 14:57

What happens on 16th April?

Thats a bit different to the end of the summer?

Naddd · 10/02/2023 15:00

Golaz · 10/02/2023 12:25

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

Honestly op id be glad shes going without fuss.

The the amount of horror stories ive heard and seen be grateful it can cost thousands to get a tenant to go

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/02/2023 15:01

Apparently most of the people on this thread think I should be grateful she’s cleaning up after herself ...

Or that she's not trashiing the place

It's probably not relevant now since she's going, but really you needed LandlordZone or similar for this, because to many on here ALL landlords are the devil incarnate who are expected to behave in a businesslike manner when it suits and like a charity when it doesn't

Good luck with the move though, and here's hoping you enjoy your happy home

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 15:01

honeylulu · 10/02/2023 14:37

Legal answer is that she owes rent for full rental period for every part of a rental period she remains in occupation after notice (including leaving possessions and keeping her keys to come and go). Rental period runs from 11th of month to 10th of next month. You have to give 2 months notice before next rent period but she only has to give 1 month before next rent period so she can truncate the notice period for which she will owe rent quite correctly in this way.

Had she relied on your notice date (22 jan) the 2 month notice period runs from 11 Feb to 10 April and she'd owe rent for those full months even if she left earlier.

However she has given notice on 4 Feb so the notice period runs 11 Feb to 10 March and she owes the full months rent for that period.

In reality (rather than the strictly legal position) do what feels fair and reasonable which might be letting her off any rent for the period after 11 Feb even if she's coming and going a few more days or propose to charge a pro rata rent per day she wants to remain in physical occupation rather than insist on the full rent period the lease provides for, provided she leaves when she says. Keeping things amicable is more likely to see her stick to her word and keep you accurately informed which is worth a lot! Evicting residential tenants is time consuming and expensive and they don't usually pay rent in the meantime!

I think you've had some harsh responses though. You aren't obliged to let a tenant live there for free and rent you are legally entitled to is not extortion!

I'm a solicitor by the way.

Thank you for this really helpful response. Ok so technical she owes, not only until the 4th, but actually until the 10th March, but that the conventional/ decent thing to do would be to give some grace.

Just shows how people are happy to lay into others based on total ignorance 🤦🏼‍♀️

OP posts:

TeaKlaxon · 10/02/2023 15:01

Golaz · 10/02/2023 12:25

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

If she'd given you a months notice when you told her on 22 January that she needed to move, and then moved on 22 Feb, what would you have done?

It's unlikely, I assume, you'd have rented it for the extra couple of months.

So by her moving on 18th, you're not losing out on anything. There is no income foregone that could have been avoided by a full months notice. So no, I don't think, ethically, at least, that you could justify charging her to 4 March.

I think you could legitimately charge her until 20 Feb, though since she's leaving on 18th and the cleaning delay to 20 Feb again isn't going to cost you anything by delaying a new tenancy etc, I think you should probably be generous and only charge until she moves out. But I don't think it would be unreasonable to charge until the 20th if you must.

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 15:02

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/02/2023 15:01

Apparently most of the people on this thread think I should be grateful she’s cleaning up after herself ...

Or that she's not trashiing the place

It's probably not relevant now since she's going, but really you needed LandlordZone or similar for this, because to many on here ALL landlords are the devil incarnate who are expected to behave in a businesslike manner when it suits and like a charity when it doesn't

Good luck with the move though, and here's hoping you enjoy your happy home

Thank you ❤️

OP posts:

ForgottenNurseryRhymes · 10/02/2023 15:04

You gave her notice. She is leaving within your time frame of your notice. Don't be an arse

IWonderWhyIBother · 10/02/2023 15:06

I read it that you have given them notice therefore you want them out on or before 16 April which is what they are doing. They can’t give notice as you’ve already done that. It would be like you’ve dumped someone and a couple of weeks later they tell you that they are ending it with you. I would agree with others that say rent is due until the keys are returned, the 20th.

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 15:07

ivykaty44 · 10/02/2023 14:52

If the tenant needs to give a months notice in her contract then you could stick to that. In normal circumstances that’s what would happen.

you’ve asked to stop the contract and asked/given notice to the tenant to find somewhere else to live/rent, which is what the tenant has swift done. The tenant has done this outside the parameters of your time frame and thus you want to punish her for this by charging her to rent your place for an extra two weeks.

of Course you can stick to the contract exactly and enforce the tenant pays, leaving bad feeling.

I Absolutely do not want to punish her in any way. Have you read my posts ? Bizarre the ways people are projecting here

OP posts:

TreadLight · 10/02/2023 15:08

honeylulu · 10/02/2023 14:37

Legal answer is that she owes rent for full rental period for every part of a rental period she remains in occupation after notice (including leaving possessions and keeping her keys to come and go). Rental period runs from 11th of month to 10th of next month. You have to give 2 months notice before next rent period but she only has to give 1 month before next rent period so she can truncate the notice period for which she will owe rent quite correctly in this way.

Had she relied on your notice date (22 jan) the 2 month notice period runs from 11 Feb to 10 April and she'd owe rent for those full months even if she left earlier.

However she has given notice on 4 Feb so the notice period runs 11 Feb to 10 March and she owes the full months rent for that period.

In reality (rather than the strictly legal position) do what feels fair and reasonable which might be letting her off any rent for the period after 11 Feb even if she's coming and going a few more days or propose to charge a pro rata rent per day she wants to remain in physical occupation rather than insist on the full rent period the lease provides for, provided she leaves when she says. Keeping things amicable is more likely to see her stick to her word and keep you accurately informed which is worth a lot! Evicting residential tenants is time consuming and expensive and they don't usually pay rent in the meantime!

I think you've had some harsh responses though. You aren't obliged to let a tenant live there for free and rent you are legally entitled to is not extortion!

I'm a solicitor by the way.

If we are going legal, then it is clear that the eviction notice had the wrong dates on it. Payment date on 11th, date to leave by 16th. If the tenant knows what they are doing, I suspect they could put themselves in an excellent negotiating position (depending how critical the 16th April is to the OP).

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 15:17

TreadLight · 10/02/2023 15:08

If we are going legal, then it is clear that the eviction notice had the wrong dates on it. Payment date on 11th, date to leave by 16th. If the tenant knows what they are doing, I suspect they could put themselves in an excellent negotiating position (depending how critical the 16th April is to the OP).

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Well no because if I did it wrong- sounds like I probs did - all I would need to do is do it again presumably. It’s still 2 months away.

OP posts:

IWonderWhyIBother · 10/02/2023 15:18

Golaz · 10/02/2023 15:07

I Absolutely do not want to punish her in any way. Have you read my posts ? Bizarre the ways people are projecting here

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Reading all of your posts you seem to want to be fair to your tenant whilst ensuring that you don’t suffer financially either. This is completely reasonable.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/02/2023 15:24

Bizarre the ways people are projecting here

That's why I said you'd have done better on LandlordZone or similar ... on Mumsnet, even if you're not already one of the hideous landlords, a way will be found to make you sound that way

WombatChocolate · 10/02/2023 15:25

OP, you really shouldn’t have been a LL if your finances don’t have any flex within them, to be able to make a judgement call to not charge a tenant for a few days beyond their normal contract date, after YOU have given them notice. Doing this wouldn’t be ‘great generosity towards someone you don’t have a personal relationship with’ - it would be human decency.

It isn’t necessary to squeeze the last penny out of people….especially when you have served notice and they are having to move but wouldn’t have chosen to…and have been very co-operative.

But I’m glad Op has acknowledged that given she served notice, she can only expect rent until the keys are handed back.

Perhaps she will consider further and decide she might just let the tenant off those last few days. The fact OP has her own rent to pay isn’t really neither here nor there and shouldn’t be an influencing factor. Yes, Op will now have a property bringing innno rent and perhaps have rent to pay on the place she has been renting herself…..but it’s all her own choice. It was the tenant that has had no real choice and who has been inconvenienced. As a LL, I always think it’s very worth considering what it must be like for tenants and appreciating my actions can make it better or worse. It’s good to treat tenants well and that means not always holding them to the exact penny they owe and showing some flexibility where possible. This is especially important when tenants have a history of being good tenants - because not all tenants are good, and those who are deserve to be treated with kindness and consideration beyond what a contract might suggest. It’s a mutually dependent relationship, that’s always worth nurturing, rather than being a faceless financial agreement.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 10/02/2023 15:28

friendlycat · 10/02/2023 13:00

Ex LL here. I agree with this. You served her notice. She’s leaving within this period. She pays up until the day she actually leaves. This is the appropriate and fair way to look at it.

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Another LL here. The above is fair. You are very lucky that she has not had difficulty finding somewhere else and you then suffer the legal consequences of her not moving out in April, because she has nowhere to go. It would take time, money and hassle for your to get her out legally. You are much better off emotionally and financially this way.

JimnJoyce · 10/02/2023 15:30

yes it negates it. She doesnt owe you any notice as you served notice on her. She pays until the 20th and gives you the keys back that day too.
This was me 12 months ago but I gave notice to my landlord as I was moving to a place id bought. There was a 16 day crossover when i was paying rent and mortgage at once. But that date was my choice because I gave notice.

LivelyBlake · 10/02/2023 15:33

Legally until 11th March and she can stay in the flat until then.

But if she gives you the keys on 21st Feb, then I'd ask her to pay until 21st Feb.

Original poster

Golaz · 10/02/2023 15:33

IWonderWhyIBother · 10/02/2023 15:18

Reading all of your posts you seem to want to be fair to your tenant whilst ensuring that you don’t suffer financially either. This is completely reasonable.

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Thank you. This is exactly what I want to do.

OP posts:

ivykaty44 · 10/02/2023 15:41

I Absolutely do not want to punish her in any way. Have you read my posts ? Bizarre the ways people are projecting here

im not projecting, I have nothing to project

seems to me though you want the property back, tenant has found somewhere else asap and you now want to stick to the fact they must give you a certain time frame of notice - why can't you be flexible as they have done as you've required and in good time?

MrsRinaDecker · 10/02/2023 15:43

We’re in Scotland so I’m aware the law is different, but when ds moved out of his last rental they calculated the charge daily until the date they returned the keys. I think you having given her notice first should override her need to give notice within notice (if you see what I mean!)
Even if legally you could push it (I’m not sure) ethically I don’t think you should.

tattygrl · 10/02/2023 15:44

OP, just stop. Go to an actual source of legal advice. You are going along with whoever sounds like they know the most, and then if another poster posts something that sounds more legit, you're thanking and going along with them next. It could be any randomer with their own interpretation of laws they've seen on Google (no offence to any PPs, not thinking of anyone in particular!). People are giving very definite statements that vary wildly from one poster to the next. Seek actual legal advice for this specific issue you're responsible for.

DisforDarkChocolate · 10/02/2023 15:48

I'd accept a week and be bloody grateful she left without a fuss.

parlourb · 10/02/2023 15:49

It's not the tenants fault that you won't be moving in yet and have to pay two lots of rent is it. You want her to pay two lots so you don't have to? You asked her to move out , she's moving out and paying until she leaves . For gods sake how greedy.