How much does my tenant owe me?

[Golaz]

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

@sassyclassyandsmartassy - thank you for the explanation. And this applies to a rolling tenancy even when the landlord has already given notice? I can't see it in Section 5 of the Housing Act of 1988 but that is probably because I'm hard of understanding.

Simple:

Tenant needs to pay you up until the date when she vacates the property - this would be classified as the date she gives you the keys back as she no longer has access to the property. This simply put is because you have already given her notice. If you hadn't given her notice and she'd just decided to leave then you would be entitled to the one month's notice/payment from her as per the contract.

Complex:

The notice to leave in a tenants contract is what they must do/pay should they want to leave the property - in this case she must give you one months notice and pay accordingly.

The notice for a tenant to quit in a LL contract is what you must do should you want the tenant to leave - in this case you must give her 2 months notice to allow her to find somewhere else. This is what you have done and therefore she must be out the property by the date you’ve given.

Sounds like you want it both ways as in you are trying to take advantage of the “notice to leave” and the “notice to quit” as they both work in your favour in this case. The “notice to quit” gives you the property back like you want but the “notice to leave” gives you the money you want. Reality is it’s only the “notice to quit” that’s relevant as that’s what you issued. She didn’t instigate wanting to leave so anything to do with the tenants “notice to leave” in the tenants contract doesn’t apply here!

Just be thankful you've had a presumably reliable tenant for "a few years" and take what is given.

The period of notice is set out in the Housing Act, the fact the tenant needs to give notice is in common law. Yes, the tenant is still required to give notice by law, even if the landlord has already issued notice as they are effectively notifying the landlord of their intent to end the tenancy sooner than the current notice they have been served by counter serving notice on the landlord.

Sorry to go on about this, @sassyclassyandsmartassy, but I am flummoxed by the paradox I see here - even if the tenant is going to move out actually on the last day requested by the landlord, the tenant still must give notice under common law, despite having been given notice to quit by the LL in the first place? Or does it only apply if the tenant is leaving a month or more before the date requested by the landlord? Or is the counter service of notice by the tenant just a form of politeness, telling the landlord exactly when the tenant will be leaving and at which point they will stop paying rent, even if it is more than a month before the date the landlord requested? It seems so unfair that a tenant who is being given notice to quit by the landlord and who does not want to leave the property themselves, would be obliged to pay overlapping rent for some of the period if they find a new place to move to before the end of the landlord's notice to quit date (if you see what I mean?). Particularly given that the tenant has so many rights under Section 21 if they do not manage to find somewhere to move to by the date requested by the landlord, and declare their intention to stay and the landlord then has to go through the long-winded and expensive process of evicting the tenant? I'll stop now, my head is spinning.

Sorry, @sassyclassyandsmartassy, please ignore my last reply, I didn't read your last answer properly. Though I am very much inclined to think along Pickwick's lines, that in these circumstances, the law is a ass - a idiot.

No problem. I don’t disagree with you. Indeed we have just agreed a release with just 7 days notice because it’s in the interests of all parties. Having seen all the things I see, if the tenants been good and is doing what they should I can’t see a major issue with anyone getting the house back sooner…. I would consider that a bonus!!!

Wow you don’t kind like a particularly nice person. The CF has entered the room.

She sounds like she's been a good tenant. Don't spoil that now by splitting hairs too much, after all, she's coming back to clean. Why not ask her what she thinks she owes you and see where that fits into what you think she owes you? Just agree on a figure somewhere in the middle so you're being reasonable. After all, if she was a terrible tenant, she could have ignored your notice, and stopped paying rent completely and it would have taken you months and thousands of pounds to get her out, through a long, drawn-out, stressful court process.

Just keep it simple. Many landlords would love to be in your position when issuing a notice.

Good luck.

YABU absolutely!
Maybe not from a legal perspective, I haven’t a clue on your legal footing and I’m not going to pretend too tbf, and from what I’ve read you have no idea yourself, from a moral one though, yes you most definitely are!
You keep trying to excuse yourself in your posts by stating that you’re right when it comes to the legality of the situation, but have also acknowledged that you have no idea, hence relying on posters here. I don’t think it’s that that most people actually have an issue with though, it’s your attitude to the whole situation!
You gave the lady her notice to move out by a certain date, why should she then have to give you notice in return? Makes absolutely no sense at all! She’s done as you asked, maybe just be a decent human being about it? You keep reiterating that you don’t owe her anything from a personal standpoint but it also works the other way, why should she be paying extra rent when you was the one to give her notice, just because you are having financial difficulties?
I know you’ve taken offence to being called greedy in previous posts but that’s all this screams of tbh!

If you hadn’t of given her notice and she had given it to you instead then of course people would be agreeing with you. It isn’t though and really I don’t see why she should be asked to be paying for your choices, needed or not!

URBU. As she's coming back to clean which she doesn't have to do, I think a week is fair.

can you read?

Thank you for your helpful input.

You are most welcome. Your reply speaks volumes about the type of person you are!

We were given a section 21 last year.
We found a property but could only move in halfway through a month and our LL only charged us for the two weeks that we had to stay in the property for so I’d say she only has to pay until the 18th.

Quite

Lol perhaps instead of spending your time replying to have the last word; focus on being a better landlord and person.

As a fellow landlord your type of behaviour gives us all a bad name!

I look forward to your next passive aggressive reply as apparently that’s what you excel at!

I’m not sure what your issue is , but it’s def not me .

You're the one that wanted her to leave and she's paying you up until the day that she moves out. It doesn't sound like she's leaving on bad terms considering that she is returning to clean. That suggests that she won't be sabotaging your house before she goes.
Imagine getting an extra couple of hundred quid, begrudging paid and creating resent from your tenant, then spending the next six months wondering where that awful smell is coming from every time you step inside the property.
(omg why is there all this human poo under the floorboards)
My advice: falling out with tenants is a last resort!

By this logic, I am a crappy landlord. I spent 17k refurbishing a house only for the tenant to move in and take advantage of covid by not paying, refusing to leave until court ordered. People are either decent or they are not

Lol I don’t have an issue luv. Read the room and the replies and be a little more self aware - majority are telling you you do have an issue but instead of being self aware and taking that on board you continue with your attitude. You are very amusing and but come down off your high horse!

This is nuts.

You gave her notice, she's leaving before you asked her to, but you expect her to give notice too? And you want to charge her for the notice period she hasn't given? Have I got that right? And she's paid your mortgage been a good tenant for years, and you don't even need the property for your own use until the end of summer?

From what I can see even other LLs think you're BU. And it's not surprising, given LLs like you give all private LLs a bad name.

YABVVVVU, of course.

The thing is OP, that you say you’re not here to represent LLs, but you are one and so you are representing them. The way you talk and comments you make influence people’s views.

What, so posting something about, for example, being a mother, makes you represent all mothers? 😂Mumsnet madness!

Golaz I don't think anyone implied that you are scum. Some people just felt it was rather inflexible to quibble about how much rent was due in the case of a tenant who was conscientious and, from what was said, hadn't caused any problems during her tenure. It is true that it is usually written into a contract that the property be left clean and in good condition and the tenant was merely adhering to that - but I am sure there must be landlords where this hasn't happened. From that angle, you sound pretty fortunate.

Mummyoflittledragon I don't think your case is comparable to that of the OP. Your tenant appeared to have been renting your property for a relatively short time and obviously caused you much worry and financial loss. The OP's tenant, from what she says, had been there for some years and appeared to be a good tenant.